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thespike
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Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: Illinois
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 Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| LyokoFreaks wrote: | | GuitarHailz wrote: | | What I'm curious about is how many people actually participate in the so-called "hardcore" customs community. What would you say is the most popular custom song, and how many people have downloaded it? I'm just wondering what kind of scale we're talking about... a hundred people or a thousand people? |
I would consider myself "hardcore" since my customs are, in my not-so-humble opinion, on par with official DLC in terms of quality and the fact that I use master stems for the artists. That said, even with advertising on relevant community forums and such, I still have maybe three dozen downloads across my four songs. I don't know how other custom authors' numbers stack up and I don't really know if I'm any standard to go off of.
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My highest song is 250 downloads since June which is kind of surprising (Paramore). There are a few around 100 and the majority around 50-70. Those are nothing compared to FOF or GH customs numbers back in the day, there were thousands then. I think with the amount of DLC we get now and GH fading out, a lot of people lost interest. But if I'm getting near 100s of hits on (not even full band) customs, I'd have to imagine the piracy for official dlc had to be more.
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raynebc
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 992
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| I've posted two Nightwish charts for use in FoF that each have well over 3,000 downloads. The number of people playing console customs is nothing compared to PC customs, on which DLC piracy is not only easier to do, it wasn't just locked out by a security update. Pirates will still be pirates. Custom authors will likewise continue doing what they do, which generally includes supporting Harmonix by buying DLC. |
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PiemanLK
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 4711
Location: /export/home
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Can we at least all agree on one thing? Phish Rock Band would be great.
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[quote=''Otend'']Id come up with a long post, but Pieman said what we are all thinking, as usual[/quote]
[quote=''youhas'']EDIT TO ADD: Hey, post #3000! Neat! I will eagerly anticipate my set of ScoreHero-branded steak knives within six to eight weeks.[/quote]
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LyokoFreaks
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 691
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| PiemanLK wrote: | | Can we at least all agree on one thing? Phish Rock Band would be great. |
Can't you see this fighting is tearing us apart?! (I don't really like Phish. >_>) |
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JTHomeslice
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 1100
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| LyokoFreaks wrote: | | PiemanLK wrote: | | Can we at least all agree on one thing? Phish Rock Band would be great. |
Can't you see this fighting is tearing us apart?! (I don't really like Phish. >_>) |
YOU'RE TEARING ME APART CUSTOMS!
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Mogwai
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 1219
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Mystakin wrote: | | Technicolor wrote: | This past tense stuff is weirding me out - "now that HMX blocked the hole", etc.
TU5 to me feels like we got a tarp in the mail. You don't have to cover the hole, and even if you do, you can take the tarp back off later.
*shrug* |
I believe the idea is similar to owning a bike lock. A bike lock isn't going to stop someone from stealing your bike if they really want it. It just stops the impulsive thief who might just do it because it's easy. It's certainly more complicated to do customs now than it was before, and only people really dedicated to the idea of customs or not paying for DLC will stick with it. I don't mean to imply anything with the thief analogy( although I'm sure you think otherwise ). It's just the first example that came to my mind.
| Mogwai wrote: | | I find it deniable because the amount I've pirated previously is next to nothing and no matter HOW much I choose to pirate in the future (not saying that I will now that I'm aware of alternative methods), I still think the "damage" is pretty much nothing. After I buy a game and drop around $300 into download songs, how is me taking a $2 song and not paying for it hurting YOU or anybody else in the community? |
Sales figures for RB songs aren't very high. Every single sale matters, especially when it comes to RBN sales that number in the hundreds, sometimes in the tens digits. Harmonix certainly has your game money, but they can't know what artists are popular in a community that pirates their content.
| Mogwai wrote: | | Do you download music? Ever downloaded a movie? Well, this is a lot like. I would say you're going a bit far to say it's my "ethical problem" because a) I'm willing to bet you've pirated in the past, like most people and b) I personally don't have a problem with my actions, so therefore it's not a problem since it's really none of your concern. |
I stopped pirating a while ago because my ethics caught up to me, but that's unrelated to the topic at hand. Keep in mind you are comparing the pirating of a music album or movie, an item that has a gigantic market, to the pirating of a piece of RB content, something with a market of thousands at most. Your dollar means a lot more to RB content creators than to music labels.
| Mogwai wrote: | And it wasn't an absurd assertion to say that if not downloading the patch prevented me from downloading DLC (which I was under the impression), that I would have to pirate songs to get more. I mean.. how else would I do it? I'm NOT going to let ANY company FORCE me to alter a product they sold me unless I personally want to. If I want to continue using my product, I will do so I see fit. If they try to force me to patch by essentially exploiting the fact I need to be online with RB3 to download new songs, then to hell with em in my opinion, I'll do it my own way. I liked my purchased goods as they were and if they didn't like something about the way it worked, they should have got shit together before releasing it.
So while I see where they're coming from by patching this, I don't feel bad in the least about the damages it may or may not have caused them because it really was their own fault. |
It's your sense of entitlement to customs that bothers me. Harmonix did not sell you RB3 with the promise of customs. That is an expectation you made yourself, and it is one that defies Harmonix's DLC business model. There is no way you can blame your own self-developed entitlement on Harmonix. This is your fault, along with the rest of the customs and free-DLC communities. You found the loophole, you exploited it, and now Harmonix has to fix it. |
Sales figures are not my problem. I will actively take part in a community centered around a game but that doesn't mean I need to concern myself with their business. As far as I'm concerned, HMX is a massive business and they've got it made regardless. All the same I wish em the best. Like I said before, I've spent money and I've avoided pirating DLC out of trying to help them.. but personally I feel I've contributed enough. Honestly, thanks to custom support, HMX could go under tomorrow and never release a new game and I'm still going to be able to play new songs whenever I want. I payed attention to the business side of things with both RB and GH, all the companies disappointed me, so I'm not gonna concern myself with their well being.
How is it fair to say that it's okay to steal one form of media but not another. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating stealing ANYTHING.. But what you said was wrong. Because just how you said, multiple people pirate RB songs and those dollars add up. Multiple people pirate music/movies and those numbers add up. The music/video industry has a wider audience therefore more people pirate those than RB songs. I'm willing to bet the damage is proportionate between the two sides.
Maybe the RBN creators are feeling it harder than HMX and that sucks.. I've got nothing against you guys really. But I'm not going to feel for you if your tracks don't sell like you wanted because I've made HUNDREDS of charts and never sold a single one and enjoyed the hell out of it the entire time. If you're in RBN for money, you should be doing something else instead in my opinion.
I bought a game with a loophole so therefore I feel as if I have a right to use the product I bought to any extent I wish that it is capable of. You call it "exploiting" it, I just call it "using" it. You're right I feel a sense of entitlement because why shouldn't I be entitled to use the product I bought how I want? And if I have to deal with an inconvenience to use it how I want, alright whatever. I'm NOT faulting HMX for patching this at all. The only problem I have and the only reason I'm arguing my point is because I don't like people bashing those who do customs because essentially there's nothing wrong with customs. Pirating? maybe, but that's up to the user to decide if it's right or wrong. 90% of the customs on my xbox are songs that I either produced myself, my friends produced, or are from bands that would NEVER be in the game. I've even contacted a lot of the artists to get permission to chart their songs and then release them for free (which they loved since they were distributing their tunes for free anyway). 9% are songs that are from bigger named bands but we still wont see in the game any time soon (Modest Mouse and Elliott Smith, I am not complete without you  ). Out of my ~2k songs I think I have 1-5 songs that were pirated and I can't even remember what they are but I could tell you I wouldn't have bought them either way..
I'm not really trying to argue.. Just trying to explain my perspective as to why I don't feel like what I do with customs is wrong and why I don't feel like it's hurting HMX to do what I do. I know there are some people out there who have a hdd full of nothing but pirated DLC and that might be a different story than mine.. But if they don't feel wrong doing what they do, whatever. It's not much of our business either way I think
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Mogwai
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 1219
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| GuitarHailz wrote: |
What I'm curious about is how many people actually participate in the so-called "hardcore" customs community. What would you say is the most popular custom song, and how many people have downloaded it? I'm just wondering what kind of scale we're talking about... a hundred people or a thousand people? I would be surprised looking at RB3's sales numbers and the fact that a majority of the fan base is casual that a significant amount of people would abuse the system enough to actually hurt DLC sales (it's not nearly as readily available as, say, torrenting an album, and I highly doubt the average player would know anything about customs). That doesn't make it right, but I think it's a bit extreme to imagine DLC sales hurting that badly from this (and since your argument for how pirating music is different was that it doesn't hurt the labels that much, I'd be interested to find out how much this is hurting HMX if at all).
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I used to be part of the "hardcore custom" scene, but not as much lately as I've been busy. My songs usually didn't get a whole whole lot of downloads.. Maybe 20-a few hundred. Mostly because I charted what I liked and I charted other local/indie artists that nobody has heard of and most people would want stuff like metal instead of what I offered. My charts were generally up to par with official DLC quality in my opinion, but there were a few issues in a few songs >.>'... Oddly enough one of my very first charts has the most downloads out of all of them, probably because the track choice. The charting was actually pretty bad though haha =\ you can see a video of it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGbte6ecjwY if you're curious. But songs like THAT are the reason I do customs. You can tell it's fun as hell to play but in all reality we'll never see it as official dlc, which is a real shame because there are some songs that just fit into RB so damn well =(...
But as for the most popular songs overall.. They're probably songs that are very popular and may or may not have a chance of coming out as official DLC. Most of them are so hard though that I doubt it would happen (maybe on RBN). Some of the popular ones I remember were mostly converted from FOF charts from custom packs like puppetshero.. Which I'm willing probably got thousands of downloads
edit-
Actually nevermind about the above having the highest download. I just checked and I have some Crystal Castles songs have come in at just over a thousand downloads per song (three of them)
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Kratos
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 1228
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah...bout that.
I'm not really upset about the whole custom thing...well...cos...
*deletes cache*
*resumes playing customs offline* |
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toymachine 
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 9629
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Kratos wrote: | Yeah...bout that.
I'm not really upset about the whole custom thing...well...cos...
*deletes cache*
*resumes playing customs offline* |
Is that still working? I'm reading evidence lately that says otherwise
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Pas26
Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 3664
Location: Québec, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| toymachine wrote: | | Kratos wrote: | Yeah...bout that.
I'm not really upset about the whole custom thing...well...cos...
*deletes cache*
*resumes playing customs offline* |
Is that still working? I'm reading evidence lately that says otherwise |
Apparently yes but I've heard it corrupt your save...
Which only means you have to unlock keytar again.
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psymatiq
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 642
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Pas26 wrote: | | toymachine wrote: | | Kratos wrote: | Yeah...bout that.
I'm not really upset about the whole custom thing...well...cos...
*deletes cache*
*resumes playing customs offline* |
Is that still working? I'm reading evidence lately that says otherwise |
Apparently yes but I've heard it corrupt your save...
Which only means you have to unlock keytar again. |
All instrument mode says hi.
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NavyCherub
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 3396
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Pro guitar/bass customs still happen to work with TU5, in case anyone cares.
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raynebc
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 992
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I still haven't tried that myself, but I'm glad that they didn't break that. Realistically, I don't see why Harmonix or the musicians would hate custom pro upgrades, because people have to buy the existing DLC to use them. It doesn't lose anybody a sale because the upgrade is user-created content for something that isn't already being offered for sale. |
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Bront
Joined: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 929
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raynebc
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 992
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| At that point, they aren't customs, they're just pirated DLC. |
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