|
|
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Quazifuji
Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 1344
|
 Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Grinnz wrote: | | Quazifuji wrote: | | I don't remember anyone saying at any point that double bass shouldn't be included (at least optional double bass - plenty of people have pointed out that they'd like to be able to play metal songs with cymbals but not double bass, so mandatory double bass on expert pro metal songs has problems) |
If that's true then we already have problems, seeing as some double bass is already charted in half of these songs. I think one of the only songs I've looked at for double bass conversion that hasn't already had some charted is Laid to Rest. Now the inconsistency, THAT is a problem. |
Double bass actually being charted is pretty rare though, and most of the fastest charted double bass in the game (WaHNtHaC, Hammer Smashed Face) is the same speed as just the right foot in other songs, so the song would contain bass at that speed regardless. The key thing is that nothing that's been charted requires a second pedal to play (even if some things are really damn hard to combo without it), while people are requesting that they chart things that do.
| nextlevel88 wrote: |
Harmonies are not important to the game. Neither Rock Band 1 or 2 had them and both were plenty successful. When you look at the amount of songs that will utilize Harmonies, they don't appear to be crucial to the game. However, it is an awesome addition to one of the instruments (vocals) that was made necessary by a band-centric game (the Beatles) that utilized them heavily (hey, that sounds a lot like another addition to another instrument that was added to another band-centric game!).
|
I would argue that the big difference between harmonies and double bass is that harmonies are great for party settings and add a lot to Rock Band as a party game, where as double bass is something mainly for hardcore expert players. When I play Rock Band with a group of friends, the casual players sometimes insist on Beatles because they like singing harmonies together, and will probably be very excited about Harmonies in Rock Band 3, but they won't care at all about double bass. In general, Harmonix has shown that, while they do care about the hardcore players and will do things for them, enhancing Rock Band as a party game is typically higher priority, which would make harmonies more important than double bass.
As I said before, I'm all for double bass and would love for it to be added. But I do think that the other big features we're getting (keyboards, cymbal charting, harmonies, pro guitar) are more important for the game. (And I am saying this as someone who primarily plays drums) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nextlevel88
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 573
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quazifuji wrote: |
I would argue that the big difference between harmonies and double bass is that harmonies are great for party settings and add a lot to Rock Band as a party game, where as double bass is something mainly for hardcore expert players. When I play Rock Band with a group of friends, the casual players sometimes insist on Beatles because they like singing harmonies together, and will probably be very excited about Harmonies in Rock Band 3, but they won't care at all about double bass. In general, Harmonix has shown that, while they do care about the hardcore players and will do things for them, enhancing Rock Band as a party game is typically higher priority, which would make harmonies more important than double bass.
As I said before, I'm all for double bass and would love for it to be added. But I do think that the other big features we're getting (keyboards, cymbal charting, harmonies, pro guitar) are more important for the game. (And I am saying this as someone who primarily plays drums) |
That argument works for me, and in the end we'll likely have to agree to disagree about something we agree on...? Ha. But again, Pro-Mode contributes nothing to the party-game vibe, and took a hell of a lot more work to create than adding some optional bass kicks for a peripheral that already exists. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PlatStrat
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 1021
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bclare wrote: | | ManfredvonKarma wrote: | | FyreWulff wrote: | | Actually, I'm gonna side with Harmonix on this one. Most bands I listen to and most in-person drummers I meet and watch live play single pedal. If you want double pedal everywhere, buy Guitar Hero. |
Most bands I listen to only have one vocalist. If you want harmonies, buy TB:RB/GD:RB.
Most bands I listen to don't have keyboardists. Supporting keyboards for any songs is thus silly and pointless.
Most songs I listen to have nearly inaudible bass. Having bass as a playable instrument is thus pointless. |
Most songs I listen to have polka-inspired heavy accordion grooves. WHERE IS MY ACCORDION PERIPHERAL, HARMONIX??? |
If we get an accordion peripheral there better be a goddamn Weird Al: Rock Band lol. And FyreWulff you're wrong on two accounts. One: While most bands don't use a second bass pedal, they almost always have a hi-hat pedal, which would designate the desire for a second pedal in rock band. Two: You CAN have up to 7 bluetooth controllers connected at once on PS3. It isn't widely used sure but you can still do it. Next time you're in a game try holding the PS button and changing your controller number. It goes up to 7.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grinnz
Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 457
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quazifuji wrote: | | Grinnz wrote: | | Quazifuji wrote: | | I don't remember anyone saying at any point that double bass shouldn't be included (at least optional double bass - plenty of people have pointed out that they'd like to be able to play metal songs with cymbals but not double bass, so mandatory double bass on expert pro metal songs has problems) |
If that's true then we already have problems, seeing as some double bass is already charted in half of these songs. I think one of the only songs I've looked at for double bass conversion that hasn't already had some charted is Laid to Rest. Now the inconsistency, THAT is a problem. |
Double bass actually being charted is pretty rare though, and most of the fastest charted double bass in the game (WaHNtHaC, Hammer Smashed Face) is the same speed as just the right foot in other songs, so the song would contain bass at that speed regardless. The key thing is that nothing that's been charted requires a second pedal to play (even if some things are really damn hard to combo without it), while people are requesting that they chart things that do. |
When you take into account the 17nps (charted 8.5nps) bass in This Is Exile and Embedded, sure some of the charted OBVIOUS double bass like the 7.5-8.5ish nps (yeah it varies that much in the same riff) in Hammer Smashed Face doesn't seem so bad. That doesn't change that it was obviously played with two pedals and is awkward to play with one because the right foot is, completely unnecessarily, doing twice as much work as that drum part was designed for. I think we're getting a little off-topic though.
_________________
| Quote: | <ace5993> keys is like guitar with easier charts and no strummer
<Grinnz> and four note chords
<Blehgopie> so its like GH guitar then |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
b.vicious
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 2075
Location: Internet
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
can we please have some more songs announced? i hate waiting like this 
imo it'd be cool if hmx announced one song every day or every other day
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DorkmasterFlek 
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| b.vicious wrote: | can we please have some more songs announced? i hate waiting like this
imo it'd be cool if hmx announced one song every day or every other day |
That's actually kind of a cool idea, if they're not planning on revealing the entire setlist until a later date. Maybe announce like 10 songs per week along with the DLC announcement on Friday? That would be a cool way to do it, instead of one big reveal like two months from now. 
_________________
| wlinn751 wrote: | | Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wattershed
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 1001
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Big thread, sorry if this is answered, but how do they do chords on Pro Mode? I've only seen bars. As in one finger over a set couple of strings on one fret. Will there be ful chord tab transcriptions? As in open ordinary chords like x32010 or 320003? Or will we just see a line with one number on it?
If thats the case how will they chart plucking guitar songs, like blackbird? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MarsPhoenix
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 377
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think it'd be cool to have surprise songs, but it's not as marketable (if people know all the songs they'll be more likely to buy the game I'm guessing), and for those about to say "then don't keep up with any news about RB3", well that's just too hard! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kane40
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 762
Location: Belgium
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Wattershed wrote: | Big thread, sorry if this is answered, but how do they do chords on Pro Mode? I've only seen bars. As in one finger over a set couple of strings on one fret. Will there be ful chord tab transcriptions? As in open ordinary chords like x32010 or 320003? Or will we just see a line with one number on it?
If thats the case how will they chart plucking guitar songs, like blackbird? |
Infos here (Yup, this was answered)
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gwakamoley
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 204
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I kinda wish we could have some talk about things that the game is doing right.
Seriously..
This thread (For the most part) has wreaked of negativity for the past 15 or so pages.
For example: Someone brings up how the chords will work. One or two people say: "oh, that's cool". Then it's right back to the discussion about the fact that there is no double bass.
Yes, we understand that double bass is a feature that could have and should have easily been added.
Yes, it sucks that vocals will not be scored in All instruments mode.
But I think it's time to move on people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FyreWulff
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 539
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ManfredvonKarma wrote: | | FyreWulff wrote: | | Actually, I'm gonna side with Harmonix on this one. Most bands I listen to and most in-person drummers I meet and watch live play single pedal. If you want double pedal everywhere, buy Guitar Hero. |
Most bands I listen to only have one vocalist. If you want harmonies, buy TB:RB/GD:RB. |
Yup, this is actually true.
| Quote: | | Most bands I listen to don't have keyboardists. Supporting keyboards for any songs is thus silly and pointless. |
Then buy RB3, which will support them.
| Quote: | | Most songs I listen to have nearly inaudible bass. Having bass as a playable instrument is thus pointless. |
Nah, Rock Band has it charted to almost all it's songs, so no issue there.
| Quote: | | And FyreWulff you're wrong on two accounts. One: While most bands don't use a second bass pedal, they almost always have a hi-hat pedal, which would designate the desire for a second pedal in rock band. |
Good thing the RB2 extra drum port will work as a hi-hat pedal in RB3, then.
Last edited by FyreWulff on Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
elmarko
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 419
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Are all of the rockband network songs coming to the PS3 for RB3?? I refuse to buy it until they stop shafting their PS3 customers and taking Microsoft bribes (40 songs for PS3!!! 1000 for 360?). There is absolutely no reason why they can't make some sort of conversion tool to convert the songs from 360 to PS3 format. I refuse to support any company who is willing to completely screw over a very large portion of their customers/fans for bribes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JOE2210
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 2480
Location: In the Gagasphere
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| elmarko wrote: | | Are all of the rockband network songs coming to the PS3 for RB3?? I refuse to buy it until they stop shafting their PS3 customers and taking Microsoft bribes (40 songs for PS3!!! 1000 for 360?). There is absolutely no reason why they can't make some sort of conversion tool to convert the songs from 360 to PS3 format. I refuse to support any company who is willing to completely screw over a very large portion of their customers/fans for bribes. |
Wow, some people really didn't listen to the RBN press release... >_>
1. There aren't 1000 RBN songs for Xbox, where the hell you got that munber from I don't know.
2. HMX would release the full RBN on PS3 if it wasn't for Sony's ridiculously closed architecture and inability to update more than once a week.
3. Even if PS3 did that those capabilities, Xbox already had the XNA Creators Club, which would have needed to be replicated for PS3 in some way, which is once again the fault of Sony not HMX.
4. I highly doubt that Microsoft bribes HMX. That's just ludicrous.
5. A file conversion would not have been needed as far as I know. The system the file runs on has no bearing on the internal code in the actual game that runs the DLC and deciphers it. The only difference I could imagine would be some padding files and some download code for each specific system.
So yeah... Go on feeling shafted and missing out on great user generated content for buying a console that is closed to smaller developers by blaming HMX. Every other PS3 user has accepted it >_>
_________________
  
  
  
| Eastwinn wrote: |
I honestly don't get it. What is the point of riding someone's ass. What benefit does it bring you? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FyreWulff
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 539
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MarsPhoenix wrote: | | I think it'd be cool to have surprise songs, but it's not as marketable (if people know all the songs they'll be more likely to buy the game I'm guessing), and for those about to say "then don't keep up with any news about RB3", well that's just too hard! |
This is true, I still remember when I was surprised by Free Bird in GH2 (I don't remember it being on the marketing anywhere).
It would be cool to have 'secret' songs but on the other hand a big song that would make an awesome surprise would also be one you would put in the marketing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flop404
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 139
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yakityyakblah wrote: | | If you're the kind of person that has no interest in a second pedal you're also the kind of person with no interest in cymbals or a realistic guitar. |
That quite wrong.
a) Not every rockband enthousiast enjoys metal - and if you don't enjoy metal then you have absolutely no need for a double pedal
b) Not every rockband enthousiast that likes metal enjoy the physical challenge that fast metal songs represent on drums - which means they also have no need for a double pedal.
c) Most (if not all) rock band enthousiasts would be excited by the prospect of playing "almost real guitar"
d) Some people that are interested in playing music but have disdain for "fake instruments" might be seduced by pro guitar/drums
a and b show that a double pedal is a vey, very niche market : you won't gain customers by adding a second pedal, and you will cater only to a small segment, which is the minority of people who play
RockBand, on drums, on expert, at a high skill level, and that enjoy listening to and playing along to the type of songs that use double pedal.
On the other hand, the new peripherals and pro mode have the potential to renew the interest of their customer base, or perhaps attracting new customers.
And even if people don't actually buy the peripherals, it's, for sure, a big marketing point anyway -it'll help sell the game itself.
Granted, adding double pedal is so easy that not adding it (at least for the new songs) is a disputable design choice. It costs basically nothing, either in peripheral (they already exist) or in developpment time.
My guess the design choice is to avoid the "expert plus" problem. You cannot chart the double pedal on expert (even "pro expert"), for quite obvious game balance reasons, and they might have estimated that adding two more difficulty levels just for double pedal was a bit too much.
Obviously, the musical (and gaming) segmentation between Guitar Hero and Rock Band is getting greater with the new iterations, which is a good thing since we'll have two really different games rather than having two basically identical games, with only the polishing and setlist to distinguish them.
RB goes further in the direction of a "music simulator", with ties to the music industry through RBN, which also implies that such thing as a double pedal is very marginal, while GH accentuates the gaming dimension, with an accent on the challenge of "beating the game" - here double pedal is a very useful addition.
_________________
Last edited by flop404 on Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Copyright © 2006-2024 ScoreHero, LLC
|
Powered by phpBB
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
