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Rock Band Cymbal Mod development
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Nextonex 
 
 



Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
Location: East Coast

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Rock Band Cymbal Mod development Reply with quote

I've done alot of GH mods in the past and I'm looking to start work on a easy (relatively), inexpensive mod to add 3 cymbals to a rockband kit.

Here's what I'm thinking, and please post your thoughts

Take a frisbee or some other disk shaped piece of plastic. Drill a hole in the center of it, mount a pezio sensor on the underside and wire it into the wiring for the pad (using a 1/8 headphone jack for easy removal). Glue some dense foam inside the frisbee to dampen the sound.

Create some sort of removable pole for the cymbal that mounts to the stand. put the cymbals on the poles with some large fender washers and neoprene washers and mount it tight using a wingnut.

I searched the forums and wasn't able to find anyone else working on a cymbal mod. Please post your ideas and mabe we can come up with something we can make off the shelf. I will be working on this for the next month since my 360 is out for repair.

UPDATE: I came up with a design for a cymbal stand. Feedback welcome.

Parts list:

I bought all of this stuff at Lowes.
1 5' x 3/4" PVC pipe $1.97
1 5' x 1/2" PVC pipe $1.47
7 3/4" x 1/2" snap on tee's @ $1.16 = $8.12
2 1/2 inch galvanized coupler (found in the metal pipe isle) @ $.84 = $1.68
2 3/4" PVC caps @ $0.27 = $0.54
3 1/2" PVC caps @ $0.27 = $0.81
3 1/2 inch threaded to slip adapters @ $0.33 = $0.99

Total $15.58

Take 2 of the tee's and a galvanized coupler and screw them together, stop when they are tight and 90 to each other, repeat. Snap them onto the upper pole of the legs, as far down as you can(pitcure is wrong. the t should be just above the black piece on the pole).




Take the 3/4' PVC pipe and cut it to the width you want. I layed the pipe across the drums and cut it to the same width as the drum array. Place the 3/4 inch caps on the ends and snap into the tee's attached to the drumset. Place the remaining tee's where you want your cymbals to be.



This bar and the 3 cymbal tee's are totally adjustable, you can slide the pole left and right and put the cymal tee's wherever you want.

Now take the 1/2" PVC pipe and cut it into 3 pieces. I cut mine to 18" You can do what works for you. Now stick the adapters in one end and the 1/2" cap on the other and screw them into the cymbal tee's.




Drill some holes in the caps... stick in a screw...




Get some Frisbee's..and wa-la!




This design still needs some tweeking. The cymbal tee's and poles do stay in place but it doesn't take much to move them. I think either a thin piece of rubber, like an innertube in between the tee and the 3/4" pipe would hold it, or simply putting a small screw thru the tee and into the 3/4" pipe as a more perminant solution. I bought those frisbee's at the dollar store, they won't work, the plastic is too brittle, I might have to look into the frisbee golf ones.

Now I need to mod the sensors, more to come.

UPDATE: I went to the music store looking for something that I could use for cymbals. I asked the guy if he had any rubber practice cymbals and he didn't, I started explaining what I was trying to do and his eyes started to glaze over then he said, I think I got something that might work, he goes into the back room and brings out 4 plastic cymbals!!! I offered him 5 bucks a piece and he took it!



These are full size cymbals, so I'm gonna have to cut them down some, but man, they are gonna look great, especally after I paint them gold. I really wanted some rubber ones because of the noise, but I couldn't resist! hopefully I can back them with some foam or something to deaden the noise.

UPDATE: I made a jig using a peice of wood, a dremmel and bolt coming thru the wood to enable me to cut a circle around the cymbal, I cut 2 of the 14" ones down to 10", they came out nice, but I'm not going to reveal them until the mod is finished.

UPDATE: I started dissasembly on the drumset. I know there are a few different models out there. I don't know what the differences are, or even what model I have, but it is a set I recieved as an RMA from EA about a month after the game came out.

STEP 1: Remove the pads



Carefully remove the pads. I used the blunt end of the drumstick to push on the rubber nubs under the pads while I carefully pulled on the pad. Do one nub at a time, be carefull not to bend your pad. You do not need to remove the red pad if you do not plan on adding a cymbal to it.

STEP 2: Remove the inner cover from the yellow and blue pad



Remove the screws that hold the inner cover on the yellow and blue pads, carefully flip the cover down twards you. This will give you access to the connectors for the yellow and blue pads, as well as the wire for the green pad.

STEP 3: Remove the drum pad connectors



Use a small flathead screwdriver and lift the connectors out of their holders in the center of the pad. Repeat for the blue pad. On my drums, the screw is stripped out for the green connector and I am unable to remove it. I will use the green wire inside the blue pad to connect the jack for the green cymbal.



This is where we will solder our wires for our 1/8" headphone jacks.

Here's what you will need:



3 mono headphone jacks (you can use stereo if that's all you can get)
Some bits of wire

I am not going to teach you how to solder, there are pleanty of tutorials on the internet, that's how I learned. Go grab an old circuit board from something and practice on it until you are comfortable doing it. In soldering, as in life, remember to keep your tip clean. when you go to solder your connections, remember to prep your wires with solder and get in and out quick. The iron should only be on the connection no more than a second to get the job done.

STEP 4: Drill some holes.

WARNING!!!! THESE ARE NOT GOOD HOLE LOCATIONS. THE JACKS WILL COME IN CONTACT WITH PLASTIC GROMMETS AROUND THE RUBBER SUPPORTS ON THE UNDERSIDE OF THE PADS. MOVE THEM SOMEWHERE ELSE. I RECOMMEND GOING THROUGH THE BOTTOM OF THE DRUM AROUND THE EDGE.




Get your drill out, drill your holes where you will have room for the headphone jacks. If your not sure what size bit to use, go find a piece of plastic and drill a hole through it and test the fit.

STEP 5: Solder your wires to the jacks.



Here's a tip, Go find yourself a headphone plug and put your jack on it, it makes it alot eaiser to hold. Always coat the terminals on the jack and the end of your wires with solder before you attempt to solder them together. Place the jacks in the holes.


STEP 6: Solder the wires from the jacks to the pad connectors:



On my drums, there was a nice plastic support that I was able to stick the pad connector in to hold it while I soldered it. NOTE: make sure the wires come off the correct side (connector side up) so that you can put the pad connector back into it's slot. Be carefull when soldering, get in and out quick, make sure to presolder your connections and don't use too much solder. If you are using snap in type jacks, insert them into the holes before you solder your wires to the pad connectors.



I had to splice the green wires together because I could not remove my green pad connector due to a stripped screw.

STEP 7: reassemble your drums. and test.

UPDATE: When I originally reassembled my drums I had alot of crosstalk across the yellow, blue and green pads. It turns out that had overtightend the screws that hold the inner cover on. To verify this I removed the blue pad, but kept it connected and held it in my hand like a tamorene and wacked it with the drumstick, I got no crosstalk when I did this do that eliminated the wiring as a problem.


This is too tight, losen them up so the screwheads come just above the surface.


Losen the screws until the heads look like this. The screw should still be snug, if it is not, tighten it until it is just snug, but not tight. This eliminated all crosstalk on my set, no matter how hard I hit it, and I was hitting it harder than I ever would while I was playing.

Before you go any further. Put your drums together and make sure we haven't mucked anything up(like I did). When you're drums are working, move on to the next step.

STEP 8:Make your cymbals!

There are alot of people using various things for cymbals. Frisbee's seem to work ok, I myself am using some plastic practice cymbals that I got from the local music store.

Gather your materials:


3 Cymbals (of your chosen design)
3 Piezo sensors from Radio Shack 273-073
3 mono 1/8 headphone cords - I bought 2 6ft. male to male cables and cut them in half
3 pieces of heat shrink
3 stick on ziptie anchors
3 zip ties
Hot glue gun (optional).

Put the heat shrink over the end of your headphone cord and push it down the cord so it's out of your way for now. Solder the wires from the sensor to the headphone cable. move your heat shrink past your splice and up to the sensor. Melt the heat shrink onto your wires.



Now attach your sensors to the cymbals. I used hot glue and attached the sensor to the underside of the cymbal.(pictures coming soon) Some people remove the sensor from it's housing, others tape it on. To me, duct tape is for ducts, it's ghetto, I don't use it. Attach a ziptie anchor to the inderside of your cymbal and ziptie your sensor cord to it. This will keep stress off of the sensor wires in the event that the cymbal falls or the cord gets pulled etc.

Your done. Put your cymbals on your poles, plug them in, fine tune and your all set.

I'm still painting mine but I will post a completed picture when I'm done.


[img][/img]
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Last edited by Nextonex on Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:00 pm; edited 13 times in total
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TinPusher 
 
 



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmmm. not a bad idea. I'll give this one some thought and see what I can come up with.

One thing that does strike me immediately is that you may not want to use plastic frisbees. The noise would be horrible. I am sure there are more suitable things we could use.
shoot me a pm and lets discuss it more via email.
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FelixTheCat 
 
 



Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG, I was reading this post and thought "Did I get out of bed and make a thread in my sleep?". I have thinking of this exact same thing myself. I was also thinking of using a frisbee at first just to test it out. I don't think a frisbee would be a very good "permanent" mod but would be VERY cheap to test with.

I was thinking of a hole in the frisbee and a couple huge washers on each side to keep the hole from just ripping apart. Mounting the sensor and spring to the bottom, like the drum heads and just putting some foam rubber on the top of the frisbee (again, just for testing).

Of course, this mode being removable is very important, so I was thinking of splitting into the yellow and the green pads wiring and running that to the outer edge of each of those drum heads and mounting female plugs on the drum head casing.

I figure I'd just run wires from the sensor to the pole that holds the cymbal (assuming the pole is hollow) and then have the wire come out of hte pole into the jack.

I finally decided last night, that I do have the stuff needed to try this and told my wife to remind me today to go out to the garage and gather the gear. She sighed and told me to shut up of course, lol.

I am sure many have thought about adding cymbals that would cost very little and I am surprised no one has done it yet.

I have gone far enough as to draw up a design and have checked the drum kit wiring and casing to make sure it would be possible and I don't see any reason why this could not be done for about $10-$20.
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kdb424 
 
 



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 595

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just use some basic piezo sensors, and they will work, because it is the same design basically as the drums. It won't measure swinging from the symble, but the vibrations from the hit. It will be REALLY easy to wire. I'd do this too, but I don't know what would look awesome, and be cheep. Real ones would never work though, they vibrate too much.
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FelixTheCat 
 
 



Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that I'm off work, I'm gonna go to Radio Shack to get the piezo's. I called ahead to make sure they have them in stock. Hopefully I'll get a chance to put something together this weekend. I'll take pics during progress. Hopefully I'll be able to put up 2 sets of instructions
1. cheap/ fast mod
2. permanent/ nice looking mod
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TinPusher 
 
 



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some ideas for this aswell. I'll see what I can come with over the weekend. As far as connecting them to the drums I think mounting female mono jacks into the drum heads will be the most visually pleasing and will be very easy to wire. As far as mounting the actual cymbals is concerned I'm thinking an "L" shaped pvc rig with a "T" fitting on the horizontal leg of the "L" so the narrow pole of the verticle support will fit through it.
Does that make sense?

In fact, I'm going to go get this stuff right now. Expect photos by morning.

Wish me luck!
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Nextonex 
 
 



Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
Location: East Coast

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TinPusher wrote:
I have some ideas for this aswell. I'll see what I can come with over the weekend. As far as connecting them to the drums I think mounting female mono jacks into the drum heads will be the most visually pleasing and will be very easy to wire. As far as mounting the actual cymbals is concerned I'm thinking an "L" shaped pvc rig with a "T" fitting on the horizontal leg of the "L" so the narrow pole of the verticle support will fit through it.
Does that make sense?

In fact, I'm going to go get this stuff right now. Expect photos by morning.

Wish me luck!


I think I came up with an easy way to mount the cymbal poles (what are they really called?). Timpusher I'm not quite sure what your sayig, but here's what I'm thinking. make a crossbeam out of pvc that goes between the leg sockets of the drumpad array. glue a piece of pvc with an inside diameter the same as the holes in the feet to each end. Attach your cumbal poles to this crossbeam using T joints.

like this (without cymbals attached)

Top View
O=o=o=o=O


To assemble, you would remove the legs from the bottom of the drumpad array, slip this crossbar over the posts on the bottom (where they would insert into the base in tabletop mode) then you just put the legs back on. It my require a setscrew to hitchpin to keep it in place but if you get the right size PVC it shouldn't be much of a problem.Then you do the headphone jack thing to the pads and run the wires from the cymbals tru the PVC. You should be able to put 2 of the cymbals on 1 stereo jack, they should all share the same ground.

As for the cymbals, I think it's best if they don't move too much. I don't know how the sensors will react to the vibrations etc. I do think the frisbee's will be too loud, but mabe we can cut out a mousemat or something and stick it to the top.
Code:
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TinPusher 
 
 



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is a smaller one for you.



And I have these done, Im just wiring in the piezos now. I think you will like the results.

Now as for what I was talking about. . . the verticle support pole for the drums are composed of two pieces of aluminum tubing. A wide bottom piece and a narrower top piece. But you'll see what I mean shortly.
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FelixTheCat 
 
 



Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my piezo's, female and male mono jacks. Stopped by my cousin's to pick up some frisbee golf discs (more durable than standard frisbee). However, I got side tracked by a Metallica DLC and after rocking out for a bit, I walked out without the frisbees, lol.

Oh well, I guess I can do all the wiring and what not and get the frisbees when I get off work tomorrow.
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FelixTheCat 
 
 



Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so forgetting the frisbees actually was a GOOD thing, lol. I found an EVEN cheaper way to make the cymbal. I used empty CD/DVD spindles, lol. I actually like this better. I will clean it up and add paint and what not to make it look like a mini drum head. Here's some picks so far.

BTW. I HAVE plugged this in and tested and it works PERFECT!!!




Here's how I split into the green drum wire
Photobucket

Here's the green drum with jack installed.
Photobucket

BETA cymbal, lol
Photobucket

Bottom of cymbal
Photobucket

Threw some foam on for a little noise reduction during testing
Photobucket
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TinPusher 
 
 



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I think the frisbees work great! But im not using the entire frisbe. I am using a wedge from a frisbee. I think it looks shockingly like a real electronic drum cymbal. Pics coming soon!
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FelixTheCat 
 
 



Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I plan to do the frisbee for the yellow drum just to compare. I have 3 kids, so the smaller the mod the better for me, lol. I like the frisbee, but the CD/DVD case adds more options. This way we will have pics of CD/DVD cymbals and frisbee cymbals, peeps will be able to what both look like and which they prefer.

My money says most will like the frisbee as it does look alot more like a cymbal, but those with kids may like the CD/DVD case as it will be able to withstand more mayhem that occurs while the kit is not in use, lol
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FelixTheCat 
 
 



Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin and Nex, When you guys get your pics together post them in this thread too. http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37410

That way peeps at the other forum can see the mod too.
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TinPusher 
 
 



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, so the cymbal is "done" and it works great on single hits, but rolls suck. Which Piezo are you using? I am using Radioshack part number 273-059. Also, how are you mounting your piezo? I just have mine removed from the stock case and taped directly to the plastic on the underside of the cymbal. I think if I can come up with a better mounting scheme it will function better.


Here is a pic of the cymbal (top view and bottom view)


Here is a pic of the drum kit with one symbol attached.


here is a pic of how the cymbal pole is connected to the rockband drum.


More pics will follow after I iron out some kinks and write the instructions for building both the poles and the cymbals.
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lygallday1212 
 
 



Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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Location: Lancaster,CA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you could have drilled a hole in your support pole and fed the wires thru there....but its cool nontheless. =]
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