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Full Band Overdrive Pathing 101
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batsmak  
 




Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 853
Location: Fredericksburg, VA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry to double post, but this is for a bump of good information


Violinhero, in the voxtar rivalry thread, pointed out that on phrases that you only need ~1/2 of to get awesome, you can delay the activation of the other instruments until part way through the phrase, start singing when you are part way through the phrase, and still get full points, plus extra at the end. it would be hard to figure out exactly, but it would work.
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Sully  
 




Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 4570
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is too awesome to not be stickied. Raunch, thanks for all the great info.
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ajanata  
 




Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: South Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys may be interested in my full band charts which already have the drum fills marked for you, as well as all the measure scores in one place. Sorry, no division of vocal points to measures yet.

Also, I'm going to make a little program that dumps all the per-measure values for each instrument into a .csv file so you can use that to start up a spreadsheet instead of spending a lot of time fetching all the scores into it. I hope to have that done tomorrow.
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Fedora  
 




Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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Location: Des Moines, IA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and ajanta comes through with yet another epic win.
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ace261948  
 




Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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Location: Yankton, SD

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

undeniably helpful...now i just need a band to apply this to haha
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Sully  
 




Joined: 12 Nov 2006
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Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got some concerns about calculating measure values for vox. This section is from Electric Version (ajanata's full band chart):



The vocal phrase lasts 15.25 beats (it's hard to see but the part in measure 20 is only .25 beats). Assuming that each vocal phase is worth 1000 points, then each beat would be worth 1000/15.25 or ~65.6 points. That would mean that the 1000 points would be distributed as:

meas 20 (.25 beat): ~17 points
meas 21 (4 beats): ~262 points
meas 22 (4 beats): ~262 points
meas 23 (4 beats): ~262 points
meas 24 (3 beats): ~197 points

My sticking points:

1) Measure 23 has no actual vocal part. That doesn't change anything, does it?
2) It is really worth factoring in the .25 beats in measure 20 or would it be close enough to just treat the phrase as 15 beats and ignore that tiny part in meas 20?
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CowShark  
 




Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 325
Location: DFW - Texas

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the vocalist isn't going to be picking up any points in measure 23 (it doesn't seem like they'll get any out of 20 either, unless they start that first word early and a 17 point sliver happens to be hanging out there.

I'd divide it up-
21 - 333
22 - 333
23 - 0
24 - 334

Even though the last phrase looks shorter than the others, when eyeballing, I tend to weight things towards the ends of phrases, because before you get to the last few words, there's usually a sort of cap on how much your disc can fill up.

If you're pathing for a full band and there's a measure there where the vox isn't singing at all, even mid-phrase, putting down a chunk of points there could throw you off if OD doesn't cover measure 24.
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ajanata  
 




Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: South Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's things like that which have me stumped as to how exactly I'm going to implement it. I'm probably going to go with summing up the duration of every word in a phrase and get a percentage for each word and just list the expert scores (regardless of full band chart difficulty -- just pretend it's a percentage then ).

That particular case is valid, but there are some things to watch out for. If the first lyric in 24 had been "+" instead of "still", then the entirety of measure 23 would have been a slanted pitch tube in the game, but my charts would not indicate this. I haven't figured out how to draw those between measures yet. A clear example is the very first word in Highway Star (ignoring the fact that the "Ah" is way too below where it should be).
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Sully  
 




Joined: 12 Nov 2006
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Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CowShark wrote:
I'd divide it up-
21 - 333
22 - 333
23 - 0
24 - 334


So by that logic, the score for the phrase would be the same whether OD ended at the start of 23, the middle of 23, or the end of 23?
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sully wrote:
CowShark wrote:
I'd divide it up-
21 - 333
22 - 333
23 - 0
24 - 334


So by that logic, the score for the phrase would be the same whether OD ended at the start of 23, the middle of 23, or the end of 23?


I believe that is correct Sully, though I have not tried to systematically prove it in any way. I think the score that gets affected by the multiplier is the % of the pie that is filled when OD runs out (that would make the most sense to me at least).

Generally, phrases like this don't seem to have a huge bearing on the full band path, but it might cause you to move a guitar or bass activation forward/backward a measure so it ran out right before a 'dead spot' in the vocals.
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Fedora  
 




Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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Location: Des Moines, IA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth Sully, I generally try to round to the nearest beat or half-beat or some other easily defined value. Honestly, the trick to full band pathing as far as I've found is not to be TOO anal retentive about it.

Unless your vocalist hits every phrase exactly the same way every time, these point values are just estimations anyway. Granted, they can be very close estimations, but that's all they are. Honestly, as long as they're within 50 points or so, your paths should be fine.

Here's my measure-by-measure breakdown of Say it ain't So's vox values: The pruple text is what you're looking for
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fedora wrote:
the trick to full band pathing as far as I've found is not to be TOO anal retentive


This is very true. When I first started I was very meticulous about all the vocal measures values. After I few songs I realized it wasn't really necessary at all. Getting in the ballpark is all that matters.
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Sully  
 




Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 4570
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has to be a sign that I'm wasting my time with this FB pathing. I just sent a long time working out the excel spreadsheet for Electric Version. I went through and calculated all the vocal measure values. I entered all the measure values for vox, guitar, bass, and drums into the spreadsheet, both with and without multipliers. I marked off the appropriate measures to denote fills, OD phrases, and unison bonuses. I hooked up the mic and turned on the game to find out where vocal "fills" were, but I had to give up after about 30 minutes WITHOUT EVER GETTING THE FIRST TWO VOCAL OD PHRASES ON EASY. I can't do it.

Fuck this =)
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sully wrote:
This has to be a sign that I'm wasting my time with this FB pathing. I just sent a long time working out the excel spreadsheet for Electric Version. I went through and calculated all the vocal measure values. I entered all the measure values for vox, guitar, bass, and drums into the spreadsheet, both with and without multipliers. I marked off the appropriate measures to denote fills, OD phrases, and unison bonuses. I hooked up the mic and turned on the game to find out where vocal "fills" were, but I had to give up after about 30 minutes WITHOUT EVER GETTING THE FIRST TWO VOCAL OD PHRASES ON EASY. I can't do it.

Fuck this =)


Haha, that's pretty funny. I am also a terrible singer. There's been a couple songs where I had to replay it on easy about 15 times before I got the first 2 phrases, then I would invariably accidentally activate OD at some later point in the song and have to do it over. I don't think I've done Electric Version yet, but I'm looking forward to it now.
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fcphantom  
 




Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 875
Location: Menasha, WI

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread guys. I just read it for the first time since I'm about to start with a new band.

BTW, at first I was thinking that the vocal charting was pointless - that you could just use the paths from the vocals threads. Then I remembered OD doesn't pause at dead vocal sections like it does in solo mode.
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