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Full Band Overdrive Pathing 101
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

meister wrote:
would anyone be willing to look at the path I made and tell me if it looks okay? I could pm it to you


Yea if you want to pm it to me I can take a look at it. I haven't pathed that song yet but I could see if I notice any glaring errors. Do you have a band you play with? You guys can always try it yourselves and see how the score stacks up!
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physe  
 




Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't realize that this required so much attention to detail.

Is there a place where we can view/download the optimized paths?
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

physe wrote:
I didn't realize that this required so much attention to detail.

Is there a place where we can view/download the optimized paths?


The Learn to Fly one is the only one I've officially published, and that may not even be optimal. If you watch my Train Kept a Rollin' and Green Grass videos on youtube you can extrapolate those paths, though Green Grass didn't come out exactly right.

My purpose in creating this thread was not to just give out optimal paths, it was to present a method for full band pathing and inspire other people to try it/come up with their own methods.
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physe  
 




Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, booo. I wanted the quick, no effort solution. =)

Great work though. Thanks for the tools at least.

This will hopefully get people talking about it and working on these paths so optimal paths can be collectively found for all of the songs.
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twistedoak  
 




Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a song that shows the drums working against the vocals is a song like War Pigs.

There's some great times to activate the vocals during the vocal phrases, but it seems like the drum fills don't activate during those times. If you wait until the next string of phrases, you'll end up losing a couple overdrive phrases. I've gone through that song a couple times, and have been unable to find a great time to have a 8x multiplier with the vocals.
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. War Pigs is a tough one. I haven't really spent any time planning out DLC paths cause we didn't have charts. I see ajanta put up some single instrument charts for some DLC, but without vocal charts or a full band chart it still makes it very time consuming to figure out. I probably won't get around to DLC until after I finish all the regular songs, so we're talking several months at best.
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Fedora  
 




Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 2286
Location: Des Moines, IA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm working on Maps at the moment.
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AJayN85  
 




Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I'd like to add: Vocals phrases are scored at phrase markers, not mid-phrase, so by "squeezing" (I know it's technically not a real squeeze) guitar and bass activations right before a vocals phrase ends, you can get a 4x band multiplier for the vocalist, netting you 16k instead of 4k. I don't know if this possibility has been fully explored, and it looks like your first activation in Learn to Fly reflects this, but that might be more incidental than on purpose. You guys can probably do more experimenting with this than I'm able to.
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJayN85 wrote:
One thing I'd like to add: Vocals phrases are scored at phrase markers, not mid-phrase, so by "squeezing" (I know it's technically not a real squeeze) guitar and bass activations right before a vocals phrase ends, you can get a 4x band multiplier for the vocalist, netting you 16k instead of 4k. I don't know if this possibility has been fully explored, and it looks like your first activation in Learn to Fly reflects this, but that might be more incidental than on purpose. You guys can probably do more experimenting with this than I'm able to.


Are you sure? I realize that the score does not get added to the total until the entire phrase is over. What I was told was if you were say, 50% of the way through a vocal phrase when your overdrive ran out, then the first 50% of that phrase would still get counted at the higher multiplier. I don't think its all or nothing as you describe, but if it was, that might change things. I could be wrong though cause I'm working off second hand information.

If you are correct, I still don't think that would change the vocal activations much, but it might cause you to delay certain bass/guitar activations to end just as a vocal phrase ended.
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de1337ed  
 




Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 1066
Location: JMU, VA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to jump to test this immediately.
I'll do Vox/Guitar, activate at the end of a vocal phrase with guitar (while vocals is already activated).

I assume the notion here is that you will receive the bonus 4x(band multiplier) for the entire phrase?

Results to come.

PS: Where (in general) do you live in VA Raunch?

IMPORTANT EDIT:
Upon trial and error, I've found that:
    If the pie is filled (while vocal OD active), and thereafter guitar OD is activated BEFORE the end of the phrase: 1600 Points (in easy with a 4x personal multiplier).
    If the pie is filled (while vocal OD active) AND guitar OD is active (before the pie begins to be filled): 3200 Points (in easy with a 4x personal multiplier).
    If the pie is filled (while vocal OD active) AND guitar OD is active (after the pie begins to be filled, but before entirely full): ~2400 Points (in easy with a 4x personal multiplier). (My perception is it is based on a percentage of pie filled when each multiplier is present.)

Unless I'm interpreting my data incorrectly, this conclusively settles that the current assumptions of Raunch are indeed correct.

For the record, these calculations were done on Paramore's Crushcrushcrush, during the first talky Crush portion. No guitar notes were played during this phrase.
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Last edited by de1337ed on Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Fedora  
 




Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 2286
Location: Des Moines, IA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, interesting.


It looks like the phrase markers (Vox) for Maps are different on the full band chart than they are on the single player chart. Make sure you use the right one when calculating Vox values.
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for clearing that up de1137ed. Looks like I had the correct info. (I live in Arlington)

Fedora, are you saying the phrases endings are different in single player vs. multiplayer? Or are you saying they just aren't marked appropriately on the charts in the Full Band overdrive section?

I know the charts do not always depict the correct phrases, that's why I record myself doing single player vox to find the exact spots. But if its different for single vs. multiplayer that could certainly affect activations.

Edit: Looking at the leaderboards, both the single and multiplayer version of maps vox have 26 phrases. So I'm assuming you were just talking about the charts being marked incorrectly.
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Fedora  
 




Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 2286
Location: Des Moines, IA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm saying that the phrase markers on the vocal section of the chart in the full band section for Maps differs from the solo vocal track on the charts in the best path forums. It was the first one I'd seen, and I haven't had a chance to do a second yet. (I'm still working on this one, trying to figure out how to figure percussion points on vocals into it.

Does anyone know how percussion scoring factors in? It's 25 per (I think?)... But is it affected by 8x OD?
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batsmak  
 




Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 853
Location: Fredericksburg, VA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, unless you have to, never activate during Percussion parts, it's almost as bad as no Vox at all. yes, it's affected by OD, though.

Vox charts aren't to be trusted at all. play through/watch vids to clarify everything, but some songs have different phrases as a band (I believe FWD is like that, and I know TKAR is.)

also, I haven't had much time to path stuff lately, but I got meister's path, which needs work, and mach made a celebrity skin path, which is almost flawless. will send to you soon raunch, for evaluation.
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Last edited by batsmak on Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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meister  
 




Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 2257
Location: St Cloud, MN

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I can stick to 2 guitar and bass bands, I'm good at those
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