FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Full Band Overdrive Pathing 101
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ScoreHero Forum Index -> Technique, Style, and Gameplay -> Band/Multitasking
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TheDynasty2430  
 




Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 792

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

batsmak wrote:
GurnKiller wrote:
beingmused wrote:
The most precise way to do it would be to treat each person's overdrive separately, but considering its effects on all 4 tracks.


This is wrong, and a common misconception.


yes, it may seem that it wouldn't matter, beacuse it is 2x for each active instrument, but this is wrong. you are actually only getting 1x for the first instrument, then 2x more for eacxh additional.

think of it this way:

each instrument is active for 4 measures, but at different times. all measures are worth the same. You wind up with this:

4x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 = 32

If you have all active for the same 4 measures, then you get this:

4x8 + 4x1 + 4x1 + 4x1 = 44

That is quite a difference there, and it can add up to a lot when you have full activations from everyone.


to be super specific it should be something more like

6x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 = 36

and then

6x8 + 4x1 + 4x1 + 4x1 = 72 unless I'm reading it wrong.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: THEDYNASTY2430
cdylan13  
 




Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 5826
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDynasty2430 wrote:
batsmak wrote:
GurnKiller wrote:
beingmused wrote:
The most precise way to do it would be to treat each person's overdrive separately, but considering its effects on all 4 tracks.


This is wrong, and a common misconception.


yes, it may seem that it wouldn't matter, beacuse it is 2x for each active instrument, but this is wrong. you are actually only getting 1x for the first instrument, then 2x more for eacxh additional.

think of it this way:

each instrument is active for 4 measures, but at different times. all measures are worth the same. You wind up with this:

4x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 = 32

If you have all active for the same 4 measures, then you get this:

4x8 + 4x1 + 4x1 + 4x1 = 44

That is quite a difference there, and it can add up to a lot when you have full activations from everyone.


to be super specific it should be something more like

6x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 = 36

and then

6x8 + 4x1 + 4x1 + 4x1 = 72 unless I'm reading it wrong.


assuming its not right at the beginning of a song you're right
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message Send e-mail XBL Gamertag: cdylanSH
meister  
 




Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 2257
Location: St Cloud, MN

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question. I made a bass and guitar path for nightmare, then I started making a path for guitar bass and drums, since I already had the first path, I modeled it after that so drums would activate at similar times, only changed the activation spots for guitar and bass a little.
My question is is that a good way to path for those instruments? And for a full band, is there a big chance a G+B+D path would be completely different after adding a vocalist?
_________________

dogfoodnyc wrote:
Wow, you guys got Meister?! I am expecting this group to hit the top
RB3 Bass FGFC! 1st x-plat
My RB Thread- | Renegades of Funk Accomplishment Thread|Twitter|My YouTube channel Please subscribe!
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message MSN Messenger XBL Gamertag: MeisterSH PSN Name: justindeboer
cdylan13  
 




Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 5826
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

meister wrote:
And for a full band, is there a big chance a G+B+D path would be completely different after adding a vocalist?


Definitely yes
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message Send e-mail XBL Gamertag: cdylanSH
meister  
 




Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 2257
Location: St Cloud, MN

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am trying to redo my HiGA path I made, for vocals, their first phrase is 250, then 500, and it is 1000 at X4, right?
_________________

dogfoodnyc wrote:
Wow, you guys got Meister?! I am expecting this group to hit the top
RB3 Bass FGFC! 1st x-plat
My RB Thread- | Renegades of Funk Accomplishment Thread|Twitter|My YouTube channel Please subscribe!
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message MSN Messenger XBL Gamertag: MeisterSH PSN Name: justindeboer
skeltonath  
 




Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 917
Location: Bonney Lake, WA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite. At 1x it's 1000, and at 4x it's 4000. That's on expert at least. On lower difficulties, you make a lower amount of points per phrase.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger XBL Gamertag: The Skeltonath
twistedoak  
 




Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed on vocals that the activation frequently starts right after a seies of vocal phrases, and then there's nothing for quite a while. Do you think it would be better to make a 6x activation for those vocal phrases, have the vocalist wait for the next vocal phrases even if it means eating a couple of overdrive areas?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duce1621  
 




Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1801
Location: University of Oklahoma

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twistedoak wrote:
I've noticed on vocals that the activation frequently starts right after a seies of vocal phrases, and then there's nothing for quite a while. Do you think it would be better to make a 6x activation for those vocal phrases, have the vocalist wait for the next vocal phrases even if it means eating a couple of overdrive areas?


I have never sat down and created a path for FB on paper, but I have been a part of the process with decent success. And IMO the vocalist should NEVER eat an OD phrase. As stated above, vocals are so vital to high scores that the best course of action is usually for vocals to just use the optimal vocal OD path and let the band know when to activate to fit with that. Sometimes this dosen't work, but as a general rule its easiest to at least get an idea of what the optimal band path is using this template.
_________________

GD:RB brought be back, RB3 will keep me

Bass FCs: RB 55/58, RB2 71/84, DLC 22/lol++(of over 300 DLC FCs only 22 scores were still posted...wtf!), AC/DC(X) 0/18, LRB(X) 18/45, GD:RB 10/43
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
twistedoak  
 




Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duce1621 wrote:
twistedoak wrote:
I've noticed on vocals that the activation frequently starts right after a seies of vocal phrases, and then there's nothing for quite a while. Do you think it would be better to make a 6x activation for those vocal phrases, have the vocalist wait for the next vocal phrases even if it means eating a couple of overdrive areas?


I have never sat down and created a path for FB on paper, but I have been a part of the process with decent success. And IMO the vocalist should NEVER eat an OD phrase. As stated above, vocals are so vital to high scores that the best course of action is usually for vocals to just use the optimal vocal OD path and let the band know when to activate to fit with that. Sometimes this dosen't work, but as a general rule its easiest to at least get an idea of what the optimal band path is using this template.



I understand as a general rule to path around the vocalist, but on some songs it seems that the drums and vocal activations do not compliment each other. It seems that the drums will either eat 3 or 4 overdrive phrases or the vocalist will eat a couple phrases just to wait until the x8 multiplier. Without working out the point values, I wonder if it would be better to have a x6 multiplier during the vocal phrases, then another x6 later (without the drums). I guess the only way to be sure is to try it out...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rabies  
 




Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2442
Location: Columbia, Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twistedoak wrote:
I understand as a general rule to path around the vocalist, but on some songs it seems that the drums and vocal activations do not compliment each other. It seems that the drums will either eat 3 or 4 overdrive phrases or the vocalist will eat a couple phrases just to wait until the x8 multiplier. Without working out the point values, I wonder if it would be better to have a x6 multiplier during the vocal phrases, then another x6 later (without the drums). I guess the only way to be sure is to try it out...


1st - very interesting topic raunch.

2nd - The quote above..we have that problem a lot.

HPZ's general strategy (ooh..i'm giving out a big secret here), has been that wulfe (Guit) and Huwonk (Bass) activate in unison with Cyclone (drums). I then do my own thing and activate when best for me. I'll carefully watch them and if I can activate at a time when I see they are, I'll do it.

On some songs, this general strategy works great as Cyclone and I can activate at the same time and the whole band immediately goes in x8. On other songs, I swear it seems that they purposely don't want the singer and drummer to activate together..and it is aggravating. I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that these are the songs we are way behind first place on. Upon reflection, I think one of them we had that problem on last night was orange crush.

Thanks for this raunch...Imma gonna go tell my bandmates to read this....and point out that the world SHOULD revolve around me (the singer) .... something I have been trying to tell them for months now..
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twistedoak wrote:
Duce1621 wrote:
twistedoak wrote:
I've noticed on vocals that the activation frequently starts right after a seies of vocal phrases, and then there's nothing for quite a while. Do you think it would be better to make a 6x activation for those vocal phrases, have the vocalist wait for the next vocal phrases even if it means eating a couple of overdrive areas?


I have never sat down and created a path for FB on paper, but I have been a part of the process with decent success. And IMO the vocalist should NEVER eat an OD phrase. As stated above, vocals are so vital to high scores that the best course of action is usually for vocals to just use the optimal vocal OD path and let the band know when to activate to fit with that. Sometimes this dosen't work, but as a general rule its easiest to at least get an idea of what the optimal band path is using this template.



I understand as a general rule to path around the vocalist, but on some songs it seems that the drums and vocal activations do not compliment each other. It seems that the drums will either eat 3 or 4 overdrive phrases or the vocalist will eat a couple phrases just to wait until the x8 multiplier. Without working out the point values, I wonder if it would be better to have a x6 multiplier during the vocal phrases, then another x6 later (without the drums). I guess the only way to be sure is to try it out...


Each song is different, but I have not come across any where I've wasted any Vocal overdrive (I've done about 10 songs). As others have said, the full band vocal path often times is the same as the single player vocal path (since the vocals are really driving where the best measures are). You have to be careful here though because the full band overdrive phrases sometimes aren't the same as single player (GG&HT for one).

I'm not sure I understand your question completely, but if it is not possible to overlap the vocals and drums because the activation points are so far apart, there's nothing you can do. Try to get a 6x going at the highest scoring part, most likely the vocals will be involved. In some cases I've wasted a drum Overdrive phrase simply because not wasting it would mean activating during an especially bad section of the song and then would reduce the amount of measures at 8x during a subsequent activation. If you are eating 3 or 4 drum overdrives it is probably possible to do a drum activation without the vocals, then do the next drum activation with the vocals.

Some songs the vocals and drums match up better than others. Seven was one where it worked out almost perfectly. Orange Crush was a pain in my ass. If you have a specific song or section in mind I could probably take a look and give you my thoughts.
_________________


Last edited by raunch99 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:14 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: raunch99 Wii Friend Code: 5200184951610899
raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabies wrote:
Upon reflection, I think one of them we had that problem on last night was orange crush.


Orange crush was the song I was talking about in my original post when I said I had 5 skipped drum fills in some cases. This was by far the hardest song for me to chart because nothing seemed to line up well. We managed to get first on the song, but I have no idea if my path was anywhere close to optimal.

Edit: As for your strategy, that is typically how we do it when we are just winging a song. In reality though, its almost better for the guitar and bass to go with the vocals than the drums, assuming your vocalist knows a good solo vocal path. The problem with this is, it's really hard for the guitarist and bassist to tell where the vocal activations might be since they can't see em like they can see drum fills, so its very reactionary. Also, the vocalist can't really communicate 'I'm activating here' because they are too busy singing. And finally, more than likely you're going to have more guitar/bass/drum activations than vocals so you don't want to sit around wasting OD in case the vocals might be activating soon.

All these problems of 'winging it' is why you can get so many more points if you actually plan out a path. It is time consuming though especially compared to single player, which is why I don't think many people have done it. It's very rewarding though when you finally nail the path perfectly and get a first place score by like 200k.
_________________


Last edited by raunch99 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: raunch99 Wii Friend Code: 5200184951610899
batsmak  
 




Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 853
Location: Fredericksburg, VA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDynasty2430 wrote:
batsmak wrote:
GurnKiller wrote:
beingmused wrote:
The most precise way to do it would be to treat each person's overdrive separately, but considering its effects on all 4 tracks.


This is wrong, and a common misconception.


yes, it may seem that it wouldn't matter, beacuse it is 2x for each active instrument, but this is wrong. you are actually only getting 1x for the first instrument, then 2x more for eacxh additional.

think of it this way:

each instrument is active for 4 measures, but at different times. all measures are worth the same. You wind up with this:

4x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 = 32

If you have all active for the same 4 measures, then you get this:

4x8 + 4x1 + 4x1 + 4x1 = 44

That is quite a difference there, and it can add up to a lot when you have full activations from everyone.


to be super specific it should be something more like

6x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 = 36

and then

6x8 + 4x1 + 4x1 + 4x1 = 72 unless I'm reading it wrong.


the 4 was the number of measures, so yes, you are. splitting it up gave 32 measures of points for 16 measures, but together, you got 44 measures worth of points. of course, usually the measures aren't all uniform, but it promotes the basic idea.
_________________
Until I'm bored and/or find a good quote, this is my signiture!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: Batsmak
meister  
 




Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 2257
Location: St Cloud, MN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

would anyone be willing to look at the path I made and tell me if it looks okay? I could pm it to you
_________________

dogfoodnyc wrote:
Wow, you guys got Meister?! I am expecting this group to hit the top
RB3 Bass FGFC! 1st x-plat
My RB Thread- | Renegades of Funk Accomplishment Thread|Twitter|My YouTube channel Please subscribe!
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message MSN Messenger XBL Gamertag: MeisterSH PSN Name: justindeboer
batsmak  
 




Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 853
Location: Fredericksburg, VA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sure. saves me/raunch some work.
_________________
Until I'm bored and/or find a good quote, this is my signiture!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: Batsmak
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ScoreHero Forum Index -> Technique, Style, and Gameplay -> Band/Multitasking All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 2 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Copyright © 2006-2018 ScoreHero, LLC
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy


Powered by phpBB