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Full Band Overdrive Pathing 101
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batsmak  
 




Joined: 27 Jan 2007
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Location: Fredericksburg, VA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just emphasizing the fact that an 8x is better than constant 2x.

My rule is to make sure the time of 1 instrument active is kept to a minimum. the more +2x boosts, the better. Also, the model i used before is only if the points gained are constant, which isn't true 99% of the time.
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LaserEyess  
 




Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, but I was thinking more of a situation like...um off the top of my head, blitzkreig bop(poor example)

There are parts where it is just drums and vocals (only like 2, lol, terrible example)

Start a 4x multiplier to get those X amount of points, then when guitar and bass come back in (in this example it is for about 10 seconds) get their multipliers going.

Those are rare occurances, but I was just confirming my thoughts with the general community.

But of course if you have a solid wall of notes coming on all 4 instruments, it would be beneficial to have 8x going. (Blackened, haha)
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaserEyess wrote:
True, but I was thinking more of a situation like...um off the top of my head, blitzkreig bop(poor example)

There are parts where it is just drums and vocals (only like 2, lol, terrible example)

Start a 4x multiplier to get those X amount of points, then when guitar and bass come back in (in this example it is for about 10 seconds) get their multipliers going.



But the multiplier affects the entire band, not just the instrument that deploys it. If you activate at that part in blitzkrieg bop with just drums and vocals, the amount of points you are multiplying is low because 2 instruments are making 0 points. 4 x 0 = 0.

Usually the only time you want to use overdrive in less than stellar places is if you have a bunch of OD available and don't want to waste any.
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LaserEyess  
 




Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did mention it was a terrible example...

Ok I thought of a better one, Detriot Rock City.

PLENTY of parts in that song where guitar and bass have not much going on, but drums and vocals are heavy. I don't know about guitar paths for that song, but there aren't that many notes, so why save OD for the 3 spots that have more notes?''

It just seems more practical to get the most NOTES under OD, not the most instruments.
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batsmak  
 




Joined: 27 Jan 2007
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Location: Fredericksburg, VA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raunch99 wrote:
LaserEyess wrote:
True, but I was thinking more of a situation like...um off the top of my head, blitzkreig bop(poor example)

There are parts where it is just drums and vocals (only like 2, lol, terrible example)

Start a 4x multiplier to get those X amount of points, then when guitar and bass come back in (in this example it is for about 10 seconds) get their multipliers going.



But the multiplier affects the entire band, not just the instrument that deploys it. If you activate at that part in blitzkrieg bop with just drums and vocals, the amount of points you are multiplying is low because 2 instruments are making 0 points. 4 x 0 = 0.

Usually the only time you want to use overdrive in less than stellar places is if you have a bunch of OD available and don't want to waste any.


This may be true, but sometimes (Mississippi queen, for example), you'll want to go over a part with little to no Guitar or something, just because the points gained on vox are worth that much more. 1 vox phrase = 40 notes, so often Vox is worth more than 1-2 of the instruments. (NOTE: my path for Mississippi queen is old, aka my 3rd path ever, and prolly has to be redone, but it is still a possibility.)
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaserEyess wrote:

It just seems more practical to get the most NOTES under OD, not the most instruments.


Well of course this is true, keeping in mind, like batsmak said, that 1 vocal phrase is worth 40 notes. For most songs, the measures with the most points, or notes as you say, have all 4 instruments active. There are of course, cases to the contrary.

This is basically the whole point of my first post in this thread about finding the measures with the most total points for the band, then trying to create 8x multipliers during those measures if possible.
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LaserEyess  
 




Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raunch99 wrote:
This is basically the whole point of my first post in this thread about finding the measures with the most total points for the band, then trying to create 8x multipliers during those measures if possible.


I agree with everything you said, I was just a little skeptical on the whole always go for an 8x multiplier. I think Batsmak explained to me what I was trying to figure out though.

And on a side note

raunch99 wrote:
if possible.


I'm pretty sure it's always possible, lol.
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raunch99  
 




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaserEyess wrote:

I agree with everything you said, I was just a little skeptical on the whole always go for an 8x multiplier. I think Batsmak explained to me what I was trying to figure out though.


Oh no doubt there are situations where you can't create 8x, or its more beneficial to do a 6x at a high scoring section than an 8x at a not as good scoring section, every song is different.

The first person who activates OD only adds 1x, every instrument who overlaps that adds 2x. So you gain just as many points from going 2x to 4x as from going 4x to 6x. You want to limit the time that only 1 person is activating, while at the same time trying to maximize activations around the highest scoring measures.

All things being equal you want the 8x at the highest scoring sections, but that doesn't always line up correctly, especially since you have fixed vocal and drum activation points. There is no hard and fast rule to finding out the best path. I tried to present my method as concisely as possible without going into every possible caveat for every possible song, otherwise I would have never finished the post.
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LifeLover  
 




Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi I really support this thread and it has got me very interested in full band pathing. I was wondering if anyone had a vocals video of in bloom with the activation points. I can't get it because i'm not at home right now.
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beingmused  
 




Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a stupid as hell question - I can't find anywhere where it talks about the deep-level OD mechanics for Rock Band, so while I've always assumed this to be the case, I'm not positive:

Does one note of sustained OD whammy equate to one beat of extra overdrive? And therefore one full measure of sustain would give you an extra full measure of OD? (Assuming no wacky time signature shifts).
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beingmused wrote:

Does one note of sustained OD whammy equate to one beat of extra overdrive? And therefore one full measure of sustain would give you an extra full measure of OD? (Assuming no wacky time signature shifts).


You are correct. It's essentially a 1:1 ratio between whammy length and OD length. 1 beat of whammy = 1 beat of OD (assuming no wacky time signature shifts or tempo changes). It's easy to see this by whammying an OD note while OD is already active. Your OD bar does not move. (Note, in some cases it does move, this happens when the the bpm is very low or very high).
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ajanata  
 




Joined: 07 Jul 2007
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Location: South Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't exactly 1:1, the OD bar is always moving at least slightly. It's roughly 7.3:8 beats of whammy:BEAT track events.
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beingmused  
 




Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajanata wrote:
It isn't exactly 1:1, the OD bar is always moving at least slightly. It's roughly 7.3:8 beats of whammy:BEAT track events.


Thanks; I've been trying to figure out how to display sustained OD on my Full band paths...the most accurate way might be doing everything in 32ths (1 beat of OD sustain as displayed on your charts = 1/32th of a full OD bar).

Ajanta, this is a different, but related, question for you:
Since I'm having to load up easy vocals oftentimes to figure out where vocal activations do or do not happen....is there a way, if someone gleans this information, to send it to you and for you to then manually apply it to your charts?

My thought is, if you don't have a means of automatically figuring out whether a space is big enough for a vocal activation point or not, then you could post a request for people to voluntarily go through songs on easy vox, paint each and every activation on the charts, and send that to you for updating. I imagined if you put a request to all pathers in the community, enough people would volunteer to get all songs taken care of. Just seeing if that was a useful idea.
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ajanata  
 




Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: South Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, vocals are a pain. I haven't done much research on the matter myself, but I've talked with Kawigi about it a bit. He couldn't find any pattern whatsoever (in RB1, don't know if anyone has looked at RB2 yet).

If people would find every single place it lets you activate on vocals, I could hack in some way to make my program look at that and display it, I suppose. It wouldn't be all that hard, actually.

Since it seems like we aren't getting anywhere on determining how it determines where activations are, I suppose a community project to list every activation is about the only way to go for now. =/ I'll draft something up tomorrow and post it in vox tsg.
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beingmused  
 




Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to get started on a few (I'll go to any lengths to avoid philosophy reading).

What format would you like this information given to you in? Your vocal charts with MS paint to indicate activations? Or just measure numbers?
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