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Full Band Overdrive Pathing 101
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In theory you are most certainly correct. In practice I don't think I've run into the situation that you describe in the 28 songs that I've pathed. Or the situation could be avoided by rearranging activations. I'm not sure I've ever planned a vocal activation that wasn't at least partly covered by drums as well. Do you have a particular song where you encountered this? Maybe its one I haven't done yet.
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Piso  
 




Joined: 13 Jan 2007
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Location: Long Island... owait, Vancouver Island... Yep, Vancouver Island.

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:34 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

I figure this is the most appropriate place to ask this question.

Concerning FB pathing, I'm sure we're all aware by now that breaking streak on an instrument may or may not be necessary to the optimal path. However, considering the broke streak, would we still call it a FBFC? I personally believe if the combo break is on purpose for the score, we should still call it a FBFC, seeing as how the broken streak wasn't because you couldn't play the song properly. What does everyone else think?
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: ... Reply with quote

Piso wrote:
I figure this is the most appropriate place to ask this question.

Concerning FB pathing, I'm sure we're all aware by now that breaking streak on an instrument may or may not be necessary to the optimal path. However, considering the broke streak, would we still call it a FBFC? I personally believe if the combo break is on purpose for the score, we should still call it a FBFC, seeing as how the broken streak wasn't because you couldn't play the song properly. What does everyone else think?


Is this in reference to the Dani California path where batsmak was talking about intentionally missing drum OD? This is the first song I've heard where intentionally missing gives you more points. I have not pathed it yet, so I'll take his word for it. Technically I wouldn't call it a FBFC if someone misses a note, even if it does result in a better score.

Are there any other songs where this is a good idea? I haven't come across it yet in 28 songs.
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Piso  
 




Joined: 13 Jan 2007
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Location: Long Island... owait, Vancouver Island... Yep, Vancouver Island.

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: ... Reply with quote

raunch99 wrote:
Is this in reference to the Dani California path where batsmak was talking about intentionally missing drum OD?


Not quite in reference. It's something I've been meaning to ask around for awhile now. The main idea is, I'd still like to label them as say, "FBFC #*" in comments, and wanted to clear up something like this with what others thought in advance to this.

raunch99 wrote:
Are there any other songs where this is a good idea? I haven't come across it yet in 28 songs.


Not wanting to give up some of main setlist songs we haven't yet gotten to play yet, I'll use Blackened as an example. If you break streak on drums's first phrase, you can use the unison to still activate during the insane part, and have it end before next unison. Then, save up all the band OD for chorus 1. Activating in the verses is a huge waste.
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Sully  
 




Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 4570
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breaking streak, intentionally or otherwise, means you don't have a FBFC. You'll just have to go back and FBFC it for the FC after you get your score.
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batsmak  
 




Joined: 27 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) I agree with Sully on FBFC stuff.

2) yeah... Piso appears to be right about blackened. This would most likely only ever be an issue with Drums, though...

3) technically DC is supposed to be a reverse-squeeze, but unlike vox, drum RSs are really hard to do...
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Kawigi  
 




Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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Location: Redmond, WA

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raunch99 wrote:
In theory you are most certainly correct. In practice I don't think I've run into the situation that you describe in the 28 songs that I've pathed. Or the situation could be avoided by rearranging activations. I'm not sure I've ever planned a vocal activation that wasn't at least partly covered by drums as well. Do you have a particular song where you encountered this? Maybe its one I haven't done yet.


Well, I ran into it trying to path the end of Dani - vocals can only activate at the beginning of the outro, but drums can only activate later, and I was trying to decide where the guitars should go. Also, the first drum activation in Dani lasts forever (and the guitar activation for the second verse/chorus) - it was relevant to decide whether it was important for all the other parts to overlap each other, or just the one that was going for the longest time. My literal scenario is, of course, contrived.
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ajanata  
 




Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: South Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry that I'm late to the party with this, but I've got skeleton spreadsheets with per-measure non-multiplier scores up (vocals aren't done yet since I still haven't gotten to figuring out the per-measure scores for them). They're .csv (comma-seperated value) files, which any spreadsheet program worth having should be able to read. They don't completely remove the prep work, but it'll save a good deal of time and eliminate the possibility of typos.

http://ajanata.com/charts/rb/csv-scores/
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CraZy  
 




Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajanata wrote:
Sorry that I'm late to the party with this, but I've got skeleton spreadsheets with per-measure non-multiplier scores up (vocals aren't done yet since I still haven't gotten to figuring out the per-measure scores for them). They're .csv (comma-seperated value) files, which any spreadsheet program worth having should be able to read. They don't completely remove the prep work, but it'll save a good deal of time and eliminate the possibility of typos.

http://ajanata.com/charts/rb/csv-scores/


that is awesome man! that saves us at least 25 mins of typing in the figures by hand. the only concern i have is that the multiplier colums are wrong. they are multiplying by 4x (or 6x for bass) right off the first measure. but the mult wouldnt be kicking in until the amount of notes are hit. that can easily be corrected by hand, but inexperienced pathers may not notice it and will be mislead. i dont know if/how you correct it in your code, but it should be taken into concideration.
(suggestion: is it possible that you can use the red numbers to do like value of measure 3 = measure 4-measure 3. that could solve the multiplier issue. i dont know how you coded it, but i'm just tossing suggestions.)

but still. THIS IS AWESOME! i appreciate it.

p34nUt
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ajanata  
 




Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: South Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had pointed this out on the index page:
Quote:
Unfortunately, I did not have my code set up to easily be able to determine the multiplier score per measure without redoing the score calculation code. I'll try to address this at some point, but for now you'll have to go through and re-work the first few measures per instrument to get the right multiplier score.

The spreadsheet program is doing the math for you (my program just spits out a formula into the cells). It shouldn't take long to fix. It also shouldn't affect many paths anyway because rarely do you get a whole lot of OD before multipliers are built up all over (and if you do have OD before multipliers are built up, the instruments without the multipliers yet wouldn't have many notes so that would show bring down the total scores by itself).
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raunch99  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are awesome man, thanks again!
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ImaCarrot  
 




Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 2684

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So something that was pointed out to me was that drum fills a measure or less after an OD phrase that allows the drummer an activation won't show up. This caused me to change my path up a bit; the fill has to be a bit more than a full measure away from the OD in order for it to show up.

Didn't notice this in your main post or anywhere else in the thread.
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ajanata  
 




Joined: 07 Jul 2007
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Location: South Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's actually about 2.43 seconds. It has nothing to do with a number of measures or beats or anything, purely clock time (specifically the amount of time for something to get from the top of the screen to the note line on easy).
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batsmak  
 




Joined: 27 Jan 2007
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Location: Fredericksburg, VA

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's good to know... I've been wondering when fill started to appear.

Formula for any math-impared pathers:

Beats before next fill could start to appear = 2.43(BPM/60)

This should work on most songs, although there are a few that aren't like this (ex. NTY expert drums. if you get 1/2 a bar at the 3rd OD phrase, the fill only 1 measure later should appear, even though it shouldn't have any fills appear for another ~2 beats after the fill starts)
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LaserEyess  
 




Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

batsmak wrote:

think of it this way:

each instrument is active for 4 measures, but at different times. all measures are worth the same. You wind up with this:

4x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 + 4x2 = 32

If you have all active for the same 4 measures, then you get this:

4x8 + 4x1 + 4x1 + 4x1 = 44

That is quite a difference there, and it can add up to a lot when you have full activations from everyone.


By this logic an 8x multiplier is the only way to go, but that doesn't make sense.

I understand that the whole goal is an 8x multiplier, but wouldn't it make more sense on trickier songs to have an on and off 4x multiplier.

You could save up for a big 8x multiplier, but that only lasts those 4 hypothetical measures you mentioned. Even if you had it going for longer, some instruments run out faster. And I've noticed while playing that even though drums are added in the unison bonus, guitar and bass usually get OD at the same time. You could have 4x multiplier on and off between Drums/Vocals and Guitar/Bass.

4x4 + 4X4 + 4x1 + 4x1 = 40

Sure it's less than 44, but in the long run( I mean the entire song), wouldn't it get more points?

If what you say is true for drums and vocals, couldn't you find paths that, instead of giving short bursts of 8x, gave out much longer strings of 4x? Obviously it's impossible and impractical to have constant OD, but shouldn't this work on songs with trickier paths?

Or am I doing something wrong?
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