Gorilla Glue Support/Sensitivity mod for EL Drum

[marcin]

[marcin]

[Beez808]

Well, he's right about the gorilla glue. It's ridiculous how strong this stuff is.

I don't know that I agree with his choice of thickness for the gum rubber though. I put 1/8" on my EL set and was dropping a lot of notes unless I really whacked it.

I would want to see some results from other people trying it maybe before I did something as drastic.
_________________

Please... It's "might've" or "might have" not "might of". Unless you're talking about giants.

Drummer and Path-Man for Drunk n Hammock (scores)
Index of Full Band Paths
Easiest Vox FC in RB2

[Beez808]

Well, he's right about the gorilla glue. It's ridiculous how strong this stuff is.

I don't know that I agree with his choice of thickness for the gum rubber though. I put 1/8" on my EL set and was dropping a lot of notes unless I really whacked it.

I would want to see some results from other people trying it maybe before I did something as drastic.
_________________

Please... It's "might've" or "might have" not "might of". Unless you're talking about giants.

Drummer and Path-Man for Drunk n Hammock (scores)
Index of Full Band Paths
Easiest Vox FC in RB2

[b08smith]

I would have thought the gum rubber pads on their own would be enough to prevent cracked drum heads. Has worked fine for me.
_________________

[b08smith]

I would have thought the gum rubber pads on their own would be enough to prevent cracked drum heads. Has worked fine for me.
_________________

[marcin]

So after doing this mod which gave an excellent improvement on rolls across the board and far less dropped notes, it still has not solved the occasional dropped notes problem.

So I am coming back to this mod, not for the indestructability as that seems to be the motivation behind it - not cracking your EL pads - but for the following comments about it:

[marcin]

So after doing this mod which gave an excellent improvement on rolls across the board and far less dropped notes, it still has not solved the occasional dropped notes problem.

So I am coming back to this mod, not for the indestructability as that seems to be the motivation behind it - not cracking your EL pads - but for the following comments about it:

[marcin]

So after doing the red drum and playing around for an hour with pure success, I went ahead and spent the day doing all the rest. On my EL set from November that was prone to dropping notes constantly I get absolutely zero dropped notes now. Zero. I am FCing and 5staring songs I never thought possible.

Now - I play on hard, I'm no sskitzzo or anything like that since the constant dropped notes motivated me to just focus on guitar. So I can't comment on expert play....yet.

This mod will most likely void your RMA - but if you keep all the old parts I'm pretty sure if you really did have major problems you could re-attach the old stock rubber pads and make it look like the original kit. The only potential problem is that the underside of the plastic pad will be very shiny. But if you opt to do this there is definately a chance they would notice.

I'll write up a more elaborate step-by-step since the original post left a lot out.

[marcin]

So after doing the red drum and playing around for an hour with pure success, I went ahead and spent the day doing all the rest. On my EL set from November that was prone to dropping notes constantly I get absolutely zero dropped notes now. Zero. I am FCing and 5staring songs I never thought possible.

Now - I play on hard, I'm no sskitzzo or anything like that since the constant dropped notes motivated me to just focus on guitar. So I can't comment on expert play....yet.

This mod will most likely void your RMA - but if you keep all the old parts I'm pretty sure if you really did have major problems you could re-attach the old stock rubber pads and make it look like the original kit. The only potential problem is that the underside of the plastic pad will be very shiny. But if you opt to do this there is definately a chance they would notice.

I'll write up a more elaborate step-by-step since the original post left a lot out.

[Fangarr]

It's unclear to me what is actually going on with this mod so I guess I'll ask. At first I thought the grey rubber was being removed but after re-reading it seems like the grey rubber is re-glued down with gorilla glue and then the gum rubber is glued on top of the grey rubber. If there was felt under the grey rubber it is removed. Is this what is going on?

[Fangarr]

It's unclear to me what is actually going on with this mod so I guess I'll ask. At first I thought the grey rubber was being removed but after re-reading it seems like the grey rubber is re-glued down with gorilla glue and then the gum rubber is glued on top of the grey rubber. If there was felt under the grey rubber it is removed. Is this what is going on?

[marcin]

No you are correct, the grey rubber goes in the garbage (or saved in storage in case you ever want to rma and make the drums look legit first). Basically you are "throwing away" everything except the plastic pad, the rubber nipples, the piezo sensor, and the spring. Then coating both sides of the plastic pad with glue, and putting a thin layer of glue on gum rubber pads and perm attaching them to the plastic.

The idea is the glue prevents you from cracking the plastic pads and eliminates all cross-talk. The response and flexibility of the glue also increases accuracy and response time. The removing of all the old crap designed to limit crosstalk decreases/eliminates dropped notes. The gum rubber replaces the stock rubber to offer rebound, sound dampening, and additional hit protection on top of the glue.

[marcin]

No you are correct, the grey rubber goes in the garbage (or saved in storage in case you ever want to rma and make the drums look legit first). Basically you are "throwing away" everything except the plastic pad, the rubber nipples, the piezo sensor, and the spring. Then coating both sides of the plastic pad with glue, and putting a thin layer of glue on gum rubber pads and perm attaching them to the plastic.

The idea is the glue prevents you from cracking the plastic pads and eliminates all cross-talk. The response and flexibility of the glue also increases accuracy and response time. The removing of all the old crap designed to limit crosstalk decreases/eliminates dropped notes. The gum rubber replaces the stock rubber to offer rebound, sound dampening, and additional hit protection on top of the glue.

[marcin]

I got a private message from someone who was interested in more detail and step-by-step (finally another brave soul!) so here is a bit more simple walkthrough to this mod:

Shopping List:

- 8oz Gorilla Glue (NOT WOOD, there are two types, one says specifically for wood, the other just lists wood as one of the possible surfaces) - $6ish Walmart/Home Depot/Lowe's

- 3 or 4x cheap black foam-head brushes - $.49 or less per brush (I found the thinner head was better than the thicker head since we are doing tight corners.)

[______] <---thick foam head [__] <---thin head, this one ftw

- 1x Razor Blade

- 1 x Bottle of Goo Gone

- 4x 3/16th or 1/8th Gum Rubber Pads without adhesive backing (if you have the backing just peel it off and throw it away)

-----

This mod is really not as hard as it sounds, the original poster just wrote it up a bit confusing. If you have the newer EL kit I'm not sure what differences you may run into. Basically what you'll run into is....

Pop all 4 drum heads off (I did each drum one at a time but it up to how much space you have - ie I kept each set of screws and parts near the proper drum to minimize any kind of screw stripping or problems)

Unscrew and remove the 4 rubber nipples from the bottom (they are two pieces the nipple itself does not have screws) and save.

Unscrew and remove the 6 screws holding the outer plastic ring onto the drum kit and save.

Unscrew the piezo spring mechanism with the 2 screws and save.

Remove the bandage and the foam ring (hang onto these but save in case you want to play with sensitivity after)

Remove the piezo sensor and save. If you have trouble unplugging it from the drum kit it is easier with a pair of small pliers or a swiss army knife. Don't use anything bulky or if it is your only option then press down very gently. The connector is cheap plastic and can bend/strip very easy here.

Underneath the piezo sensor there is this little foam sticker. If you peel it off it may rip, I did it SUPER slow. I never put this back on but it might be better to have it, so this is one that needs more testing to see if it helps or not. If you can peel it off safely then hang onto it. If you plan on keeping it on to protect the sensor then do not peel it off in the first place.

Now you should have just the front and back of the plastic pad. Rip off the foam pad (with the colored ring) that comes in the stock kit. The original poster had felt underneath, I had a bunch of adhesive. For the adhesive spray it down with Goo Gone or an adhesive remover that won't hurt the plastic, let it sit about 3-4 mins then wet it and take a razor blade to it. You may need to reapply Goo Gone one or two additional times per pad. Scrape good, getting all the adhesive off is essential.

Once the plastic is completely clean, you should have nothing but smooth cheap plastic on both sides (and possibly that felt sticker if you are keeping it) and nothing else. Start with the bottom of the pad.

Apply the gorilla glue in small dots or lines, one at a time. It dries fairly quickly so just do the area you are painting at the time. I put small lines on the pad itself then used the foam brush to make strokes. Use either a well-lit area or a direct light and tilt the pad periodically so that you can see the glare of the glue. The idea here is VERY LITTLE GLUE. We are not trying to make this thing a super chunky pad we are just reinforcing every part of it with flexible strength.

Paint the entire bottom of the pad EXCEPT THE SMALL CIRCLE AREA WHERE THE SENSOR GOES. If you kept the felt circle there or not, you do not want any glue there. Make sure to get everywhere else, including all the small posts, and all the corners and grooves. The small brush helps get the outer lip with diagonal strokes. For all the small posts if you get any glue in the holes be sure to use a toothpick or something to scrap it out early. Doing it after requires something sharp like an x-acto knife.

Let the pad dry. I suppose it depends on your humidity. The original poster said 24 hours per side with a fan blowing. Here in Nevada it only took around 8-12 hours per side with no fan blowing on it, just air dry. Basically you know it is dry when you can touch it and your hand doesn't stick for half a second. The glue becomes adhesive and near-dries within only a few minutes but if you do not let it sit at least half a day or more per side it will be sticky and cause problems.

After you've let the bottoms dry, flip them over and get the tops. You want an even more thin coat for the top than you did on the bottom. Let this dry for about half as long as you let the bottoms dry. Once they are ready, paint a thin coat of glue on the bottom of your gum rubber pads. It will not apply as smooth here as it did on the plastic, but do not find this a reason to have to apply more glue - just make more strokes and try to "smear" the glue a lot more here. the edges can be hard if you are holding the pad in your hand, so be prepared to get sticky fingers because getting the entire bottom of the pad is essential.

Now - LIGHTLY wet the top of the plastic pad. I used a sponge and just patted across. You want no water beads, only moisture. Then line up your gum rubber pads to be as close to the middle as possible and press down in your hands for a few seconds to attach.

Find something heavy THAT COVERS ALL OF THE GUM RUBBER PAD, NOT JUST A HEAVY PAPERWEIGHT and place it on top to get a solid attachment between the plastic and the gum rubber. I had nothing that fit this criteria so I used 8 clamps. I let the clamps sit near each other in the middle for about 45 minutes, then halfway between the middle and the edge for 45 minutes and then at the lip for 45 minutes. The drying time for this part should only take 2-4 hours depending on humidity.

I found reattaching the nipples first was easiest. Note that you have to push a little bit to get them back how they were (with the center going through the plastic).

After the nipples the outer plastic ring with the 6 screws.

Before reattaching the sensor I took the time to look over the wires. 2 of my 4 sensors had exposed wire so you may want to take the time to do the same and wrap it back up with electrical tape, or look for actual split wires and resolder them.

Then for the sensor: you just apply the sensor (with its own bandage) metal side against the pad or felt sticker. Put the spring mechanism with the 2 screws back on. You shouldn't need the penny mod or the cardboard cutouts here. Left over you should have the big bandage (with the circle in it) and the ring - we aren't using this.

Now when placing the drum head back on, watch the route the wire takes. If you can, find a way to keep the wire away from the sensor in the middle and from resting on the foam underneath, otherwise you will get an annoying rattle sound when playing. I used electrical tape to the back of the plastic pad to control the way it lay in the kit.


Next I'm debating putting glue on the outside of the kits and joints as well to help even more with vibrations. I did the support mod figuring it would help a bunch but perhaps there is room for more here.

[marcin]

I got a private message from someone who was interested in more detail and step-by-step (finally another brave soul!) so here is a bit more simple walkthrough to this mod:

Shopping List:

- 8oz Gorilla Glue (NOT WOOD, there are two types, one says specifically for wood, the other just lists wood as one of the possible surfaces) - $6ish Walmart/Home Depot/Lowe's

- 3 or 4x cheap black foam-head brushes - $.49 or less per brush (I found the thinner head was better than the thicker head since we are doing tight corners.)

[______] <---thick foam head [__] <---thin head, this one ftw

- 1x Razor Blade

- 1 x Bottle of Goo Gone

- 4x 3/16th or 1/8th Gum Rubber Pads without adhesive backing (if you have the backing just peel it off and throw it away)

-----

This mod is really not as hard as it sounds, the original poster just wrote it up a bit confusing. If you have the newer EL kit I'm not sure what differences you may run into. Basically what you'll run into is....

Pop all 4 drum heads off (I did each drum one at a time but it up to how much space you have - ie I kept each set of screws and parts near the proper drum to minimize any kind of screw stripping or problems)

Unscrew and remove the 4 rubber nipples from the bottom (they are two pieces the nipple itself does not have screws) and save.

Unscrew and remove the 6 screws holding the outer plastic ring onto the drum kit and save.

Unscrew the piezo spring mechanism with the 2 screws and save.

Remove the bandage and the foam ring (hang onto these but save in case you want to play with sensitivity after)

Remove the piezo sensor and save. If you have trouble unplugging it from the drum kit it is easier with a pair of small pliers or a swiss army knife. Don't use anything bulky or if it is your only option then press down very gently. The connector is cheap plastic and can bend/strip very easy here.

Underneath the piezo sensor there is this little foam sticker. If you peel it off it may rip, I did it SUPER slow. I never put this back on but it might be better to have it, so this is one that needs more testing to see if it helps or not. If you can peel it off safely then hang onto it. If you plan on keeping it on to protect the sensor then do not peel it off in the first place.

Now you should have just the front and back of the plastic pad. Rip off the foam pad (with the colored ring) that comes in the stock kit. The original poster had felt underneath, I had a bunch of adhesive. For the adhesive spray it down with Goo Gone or an adhesive remover that won't hurt the plastic, let it sit about 3-4 mins then wet it and take a razor blade to it. You may need to reapply Goo Gone one or two additional times per pad. Scrape good, getting all the adhesive off is essential.

Once the plastic is completely clean, you should have nothing but smooth cheap plastic on both sides (and possibly that felt sticker if you are keeping it) and nothing else. Start with the bottom of the pad.

Apply the gorilla glue in small dots or lines, one at a time. It dries fairly quickly so just do the area you are painting at the time. I put small lines on the pad itself then used the foam brush to make strokes. Use either a well-lit area or a direct light and tilt the pad periodically so that you can see the glare of the glue. The idea here is VERY LITTLE GLUE. We are not trying to make this thing a super chunky pad we are just reinforcing every part of it with flexible strength.

Paint the entire bottom of the pad EXCEPT THE SMALL CIRCLE AREA WHERE THE SENSOR GOES. If you kept the felt circle there or not, you do not want any glue there. Make sure to get everywhere else, including all the small posts, and all the corners and grooves. The small brush helps get the outer lip with diagonal strokes. For all the small posts if you get any glue in the holes be sure to use a toothpick or something to scrap it out early. Doing it after requires something sharp like an x-acto knife.

Let the pad dry. I suppose it depends on your humidity. The original poster said 24 hours per side with a fan blowing. Here in Nevada it only took around 8-12 hours per side with no fan blowing on it, just air dry. Basically you know it is dry when you can touch it and your hand doesn't stick for half a second. The glue becomes adhesive and near-dries within only a few minutes but if you do not let it sit at least half a day or more per side it will be sticky and cause problems.

After you've let the bottoms dry, flip them over and get the tops. You want an even more thin coat for the top than you did on the bottom. Let this dry for about half as long as you let the bottoms dry. Once they are ready, paint a thin coat of glue on the bottom of your gum rubber pads. It will not apply as smooth here as it did on the plastic, but do not find this a reason to have to apply more glue - just make more strokes and try to "smear" the glue a lot more here. the edges can be hard if you are holding the pad in your hand, so be prepared to get sticky fingers because getting the entire bottom of the pad is essential.

Now - LIGHTLY wet the top of the plastic pad. I used a sponge and just patted across. You want no water beads, only moisture. Then line up your gum rubber pads to be as close to the middle as possible and press down in your hands for a few seconds to attach.

Find something heavy THAT COVERS ALL OF THE GUM RUBBER PAD, NOT JUST A HEAVY PAPERWEIGHT and place it on top to get a solid attachment between the plastic and the gum rubber. I had nothing that fit this criteria so I used 8 clamps. I let the clamps sit near each other in the middle for about 45 minutes, then halfway between the middle and the edge for 45 minutes and then at the lip for 45 minutes. The drying time for this part should only take 2-4 hours depending on humidity.

I found reattaching the nipples first was easiest. Note that you have to push a little bit to get them back how they were (with the center going through the plastic).

After the nipples the outer plastic ring with the 6 screws.

Before reattaching the sensor I took the time to look over the wires. 2 of my 4 sensors had exposed wire so you may want to take the time to do the same and wrap it back up with electrical tape, or look for actual split wires and resolder them.

Then for the sensor: you just apply the sensor (with its own bandage) metal side against the pad or felt sticker. Put the spring mechanism with the 2 screws back on. You shouldn't need the penny mod or the cardboard cutouts here. Left over you should have the big bandage (with the circle in it) and the ring - we aren't using this.

Now when placing the drum head back on, watch the route the wire takes. If you can, find a way to keep the wire away from the sensor in the middle and from resting on the foam underneath, otherwise you will get an annoying rattle sound when playing. I used electrical tape to the back of the plastic pad to control the way it lay in the kit.


Next I'm debating putting glue on the outside of the kits and joints as well to help even more with vibrations. I did the support mod figuring it would help a bunch but perhaps there is room for more here.