Any interest in reviving the Vocal Gold Star cutoff project?

[PeridotWeapon]

Right. I ramble too much, so let's do this in two versions.

================================

The EASY READ Version:

I wanna revive the "Vocal Gold Star cutoff" project, much like I've been keeping up-to-date on in Guitar/Bass.

With accurate 5* cutoffs we can get very close 5GS cutoffs, because I've confirmed the approximate multiplier.

But I can't sing, so I'd need people willing to determine those 5* cutoffs to get this project off the ground.

If a few people have interest in it, I'll whip up a beta list (with scores that may be WAY off) and we can go from there.

================================

The WALL of TEXT version:

Seeing as I "run" the Guitar/Bass Gold Star cutoffs and apparently enjoy wasting my time determining numbers and not actually getting high scores , a couple people have asked me if I want to maintain a similar list for Vocals.

It's a whole different can of worms than Guitar/Bass, though, due to the large increases in score from segment to segment and the fact that I can't sing worth a damn to determine these scores myself.

Not too many people showed interest in the current Vocals topic, so I'm afraid another one would be met with similar disinterest. But if I can find a few people willing to determine some reasonably accurate 5* scores (I don't need Gold Stars, just the 5 Star will do), I think we could make this work.

Because after wasting TWO HOURS of my life on Blitzkrieg Bop, I've got the formula pretty close:

5* : 86,175 - 86,262
5GS : 130,973 - 131,360
Which gives a multiplier somewhere between 1.5183 - 1.5213.

Logically, all roads lead to "the programmers were lazy" and used the same formula (1.5195) for all instruments except for drums, where they had to use a lower one to make up for the notes lost from the drum fills.


So now that we know the approximate "Rule of 1.52" applies here, it should be easy to get those cutoffs, right?

... no. Consider this scenario:
You have 42,000 points and a 8x (overdrive) multiplier on a song.
The song's true 5* cutoff is 43,000.
You do the next phrase perfectly, get 1,000 (x8).
Score jumps to 50,000, you hear a "ding" and see the fifth star.
You think, "Okay, that's easy enough to calculate. 50,000 x 1.52 = 76,000."
Where as the REAL cutoff would be 43,000 x 1.52 = 65,360 ... over TEN THOUSAND points lower.


And those stupid multi-thousand point jumps are the reason why getting cutoffs even to within 1,000 point of the true range is going to be a BITCH. Unless I find people as crazy as I am, willing to deliberately sabotage their scores and multipliers to determine accurate 5* cutoffs (and from them, the 5GS ones), it's pretty much an impossible project.

Damned if I'm not willing to try, though. But I'll need a "few good voices" to get the job done. I fail out in "In Bloom" in less than a minute when I try that.

[PeridotWeapon]

Right. I ramble too much, so let's do this in two versions.

================================

The EASY READ Version:

I wanna revive the "Vocal Gold Star cutoff" project, much like I've been keeping up-to-date on in Guitar/Bass.

With accurate 5* cutoffs we can get very close 5GS cutoffs, because I've confirmed the approximate multiplier.

But I can't sing, so I'd need people willing to determine those 5* cutoffs to get this project off the ground.

If a few people have interest in it, I'll whip up a beta list (with scores that may be WAY off) and we can go from there.

================================

The WALL of TEXT version:

Seeing as I "run" the Guitar/Bass Gold Star cutoffs and apparently enjoy wasting my time determining numbers and not actually getting high scores , a couple people have asked me if I want to maintain a similar list for Vocals.

It's a whole different can of worms than Guitar/Bass, though, due to the large increases in score from segment to segment and the fact that I can't sing worth a damn to determine these scores myself.

Not too many people showed interest in the current Vocals topic, so I'm afraid another one would be met with similar disinterest. But if I can find a few people willing to determine some reasonably accurate 5* scores (I don't need Gold Stars, just the 5 Star will do), I think we could make this work.

Because after wasting TWO HOURS of my life on Blitzkrieg Bop, I've got the formula pretty close:

5* : 86,175 - 86,262
5GS : 130,973 - 131,360
Which gives a multiplier somewhere between 1.5183 - 1.5213.

Logically, all roads lead to "the programmers were lazy" and used the same formula (1.5195) for all instruments except for drums, where they had to use a lower one to make up for the notes lost from the drum fills.


So now that we know the approximate "Rule of 1.52" applies here, it should be easy to get those cutoffs, right?

... no. Consider this scenario:
You have 42,000 points and a 8x (overdrive) multiplier on a song.
The song's true 5* cutoff is 43,000.
You do the next phrase perfectly, get 1,000 (x8).
Score jumps to 50,000, you hear a "ding" and see the fifth star.
You think, "Okay, that's easy enough to calculate. 50,000 x 1.52 = 76,000."
Where as the REAL cutoff would be 43,000 x 1.52 = 65,360 ... over TEN THOUSAND points lower.


And those stupid multi-thousand point jumps are the reason why getting cutoffs even to within 1,000 point of the true range is going to be a BITCH. Unless I find people as crazy as I am, willing to deliberately sabotage their scores and multipliers to determine accurate 5* cutoffs (and from them, the 5GS ones), it's pretty much an impossible project.

Damned if I'm not willing to try, though. But I'll need a "few good voices" to get the job done. I fail out in "In Bloom" in less than a minute when I try that.

[pmswedge]

Sure, I'll help with this. I just plain like to sing so this sounds like a fun project.
_________________

[pmswedge]

Sure, I'll help with this. I just plain like to sing so this sounds like a fun project.
_________________

[AJayN85]

This sounds difficult, but I might give it a try on a short song and see what I can come up with.

[AJayN85]

This sounds difficult, but I might give it a try on a short song and see what I can come up with.

[RLKDragon]

I'll go and help you with some of the easier songs since I'm just starting vox on Expert (PS2 BTW).

[RLKDragon]

I'll go and help you with some of the easier songs since I'm just starting vox on Expert (PS2 BTW).

[pvtGramps]

I've got a lot of the stuff at 4*'s, so why not? Here's what I've got at 5* and Gold starred:

Main List:
Ballroom Blitz: 280,500~ Gold Star. I think on the main forums this one's listed as 275kish

Enter Sandman: 122,378 5*.

Flirtin' With Disaster: 154,166, 5*

Bonus:
29 Fingers: 75,414, 5*

DLC:
Sprode: 143,266, 5*
Wonderwall: 136,748, 5*
_________________

Why yes, I do fancy myself a warrior poet.

[pvtGramps]

I've got a lot of the stuff at 4*'s, so why not? Here's what I've got at 5* and Gold starred:

Main List:
Ballroom Blitz: 280,500~ Gold Star. I think on the main forums this one's listed as 275kish

Enter Sandman: 122,378 5*.

Flirtin' With Disaster: 154,166, 5*

Bonus:
29 Fingers: 75,414, 5*

DLC:
Sprode: 143,266, 5*
Wonderwall: 136,748, 5*
_________________

Why yes, I do fancy myself a warrior poet.

[TheNewsAndHueyL]

There's a thread on the official forums with some Vocal Gold Star points if that is of any help:

http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15029

[TheNewsAndHueyL]

There's a thread on the official forums with some Vocal Gold Star points if that is of any help:

http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15029

[cdylan13]

I'll help out all I can. Heres the gold stars I have.


Vasoline- 112,364 100%

Are You Gonna Be My Girl- 185,384 GS 98% 22 PS

Flirtin' With Disaster- 200,033 GS 99% 29 PS

Tom Sawyer- 183,575 GS 97% 13 PS

Blitzkrieg Bop- 136,980 GS 100%

Paranoid- 117,644 GS 100%

Creep- 186,420 GS 100%

Dani California- 231218 GS 99% 43 PS (EPIC PHAIL)

Maps- 150,107 GS 100%

Pleasure (Pleasure)- 148,598 GS 100%

[cdylan13]

I'll help out all I can. Heres the gold stars I have.


Vasoline- 112,364 100%

Are You Gonna Be My Girl- 185,384 GS 98% 22 PS

Flirtin' With Disaster- 200,033 GS 99% 29 PS

Tom Sawyer- 183,575 GS 97% 13 PS

Blitzkrieg Bop- 136,980 GS 100%

Paranoid- 117,644 GS 100%

Creep- 186,420 GS 100%

Dani California- 231218 GS 99% 43 PS (EPIC PHAIL)

Maps- 150,107 GS 100%

Pleasure (Pleasure)- 148,598 GS 100%

[PeridotWeapon]

[PeridotWeapon]

[pvtGramps]

Here's a nailed 5-star Gold for When You Were Young: 110k.

Pausing is the best way to do it. So's using the extra hand we've got to jot down while continuing.
_________________

Why yes, I do fancy myself a warrior poet.

[pvtGramps]

Here's a nailed 5-star Gold for When You Were Young: 110k.

Pausing is the best way to do it. So's using the extra hand we've got to jot down while continuing.
_________________

Why yes, I do fancy myself a warrior poet.

[mr-apples]

I don't know. Cutoffs seem a lot less necessary for vocals compared to guitar/drums.

Since a vocalist inherantly has fewer phrases to work with, one can very nearly equate a gold star with a song FC or a high scoring -1 run. (Obviously there are exceptions)

What I guess I am getting at, is that I see less of a reason for cutoffs if the gold star strategy for every single song is "FC the song with reasonable overdrive usage"

[mr-apples]

I don't know. Cutoffs seem a lot less necessary for vocals compared to guitar/drums.

Since a vocalist inherantly has fewer phrases to work with, one can very nearly equate a gold star with a song FC or a high scoring -1 run. (Obviously there are exceptions)

What I guess I am getting at, is that I see less of a reason for cutoffs if the gold star strategy for every single song is "FC the song with reasonable overdrive usage"

[AJayN85]

He's got a point. The thousand point score chunks in Vocals make it much harder to find exact cut-offs than the other instruments.

[AJayN85]

He's got a point. The thousand point score chunks in Vocals make it much harder to find exact cut-offs than the other instruments.

[cdylan13]

[cdylan13]

[PeridotWeapon]

[PeridotWeapon]

[NumberCruncher]

It seems like this is one situation especially where it would be much easier to figure out the cutoffs from the base scores, since the base scores are so easy to determine. The real question is how tambourine hits figure into the whole deal. I did some quick math and came up with a system that seems to work for the few cases I've checked thus far. Hopefully tomorrow I wil have time to compile an entire list of cutoffs using it and see how it stands up to scrutiny, but here is the basic rundown for now.

I'll just include numbers within +/- 0.01 for now, hopefully to be narrowed down later.

x Star Cutoff Formula

[NumberCruncher]

It seems like this is one situation especially where it would be much easier to figure out the cutoffs from the base scores, since the base scores are so easy to determine. The real question is how tambourine hits figure into the whole deal. I did some quick math and came up with a system that seems to work for the few cases I've checked thus far. Hopefully tomorrow I wil have time to compile an entire list of cutoffs using it and see how it stands up to scrutiny, but here is the basic rundown for now.

I'll just include numbers within +/- 0.01 for now, hopefully to be narrowed down later.

x Star Cutoff Formula

[PeridotWeapon]

[PeridotWeapon]