FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Is pause squeeze OD cheating on vocals?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    ScoreHero Forum Index -> Technique, Style, and Gameplay -> Vocals
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Vickie  





Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:39 am    Post subject: Is pause squeeze OD cheating on vocals? Reply with quote

Is this considered cheating? I've never found a clear answer to this question.

I don't use this myself, but in the last weeks, I've seen a few people on Twitch using this trick, and submit scores here on scorehero.

If it's completely legit, then I apologize and will work on some scores. ;)
What do you guys think?

Oh I speak French, I hope my question is clear .
_________________
FGFC: RB4, RB3, RB2, Lego, TB:RB, GD:RB


Last edited by Vickie on Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:43 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: Io LP oI
UltraHeroABC5  





Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 1382
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think so, because a lot of paths (like RB3 paths) seem to use it. One example I can think of is The Power Of Love. I think Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before has one too. I've used it before so you shouldn't worry.
_________________
Walter Time on Xbox and pretty much every other platform. Vox main.
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message
Vickie  





Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mean pause-killl or stuff like that.

I mean pausing multiples time to get some more overdrive, or pausing to align before an esf for example.
_________________
FGFC: RB4, RB3, RB2, Lego, TB:RB, GD:RB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: Io LP oI
UltraHeroABC5  





Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 1382
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh ok, I misunderstood that, sorry about that.
_________________
Walter Time on Xbox and pretty much every other platform. Vox main.
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message
GingerBraFace  





Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Santraginus V

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe pausing to squeeze OD is still a perfectly legal score. I don't know of any rules that would make it illegal, as you're not modifying the game or swapping the hardware. Perhaps someone else can confirm?
_________________
Please, call me Ginger :D

Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message Visit poster's website XBL Gamertag: GingerBraFace PSN Name: GingerBraFace Wii Friend Code: 390546319559
LucasPWNS8907  





Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 181

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always considered things like these to be cheating but I'm probably the most conservative person you'll find on such matters. I was never okay with the guide button trick people used on tough activation windows in RB2 and I absolutely wasn't okay with pause killing or pause button activations in RB3. My rule of thumb has always been that if I can attain it in band, it's legit. What I mean by this is that the run should be fully uninterrupted. And when RB3 came along this also meant none of the band failing shenanigans. At the end of the day though, it doesn't seem that there's any sort of consensus as to what is considered cheating versus behavior that is frowned upon.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website XBL Gamertag: LucasPWNS8907 PSN Name: TheyCallMeLucas
RJUCPU  





Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1827
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't get extra OD from pausing anymore. That was fixed with the patch in RB3 when they also added the maximum times you can pause before your score turns to zero. It obviously was still apparent in RB3 because people just removed the patch and played offline and their scores would upload when they reconnected (and there were even screenshots loaded on here as "proof" that are obviously offline). However, the new consoles won't upload your scores if you get them offline.

When we started playing RB4/Rivals, Joe and I tested all the known glitches on RB4 to try and justify some of the scores we were seeing. Not necessarily vocals, just in general (before we knew about the cal pathing on G/B). There was never a time we were able to add OD by pausing repeatedly (other glitches are fixed as well such as the band fail, etc).

As for pausing just to obtain a squeeze? Well this is something that's been done since RB1. It's just more obvious now because you see people on Twitch and whatnot. I don't personally consider it cheating but I do agree with a lot of what Lucas said about it. I consider using FS more of a cheat than pausing to get a better squeeze and no one considers that cheating for some unknown reason. To me, there has never been anything in this game more stupid and flagrantly exploited as freestyle vocals (although shaking your damn leg to get vibrato is pretty close).

Edit: Joe said the pausing for extra OD did carry over to RB4 initially but with one of the patches and LB wipes they did fix it so it's no longer a thing.
_________________


Last edited by RJUCPU on Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger XBL Gamertag: vVv RJUCPU PSN Name: RJUCPU Wii Friend Code: 429619949789
singemfrc  





Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 4406
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pausing once to prepare to hit a small window or pausing to intentionally "kill" an od phrase are not cheating.

Spamming the pause button to back the highway up and gain points you couldn't otherwise gain is cheating, and the game will zero your score if you do it enough.
_________________
PSN: singemfrc
Twitch: singemfrcps
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail PSN Name: singemfrc
IndestructibleSD  





Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 1382
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singemfrc wrote:
Pausing once to prepare to hit a small window or pausing to intentionally "kill" an od phrase are not cheating.

Spamming the pause button to back the highway up and gain points you couldn't otherwise gain is cheating, and the game will zero your score if you do it enough.

Agreed, but I think the grey area most people are talking about is pausing to line up a squeeze. It definitely provides an advantage because the rewind allows you to line up the correct pitch on the squeezed phrase (useful for quick phrase transitions, catching your breath, and making sure you are directly lined up on the starting pitch)

This technique doesn't work in full band and would not be allowed at a "live" RB competition (not that there are any of those anymore), but it is something available in solo play that doesn't increase OD or leverage a known exploit. Not advocating for or against it, but it is out there.
_________________
dbforthree, Expert Vocalist PS4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website PSN Name: dbforthree
Vickie  





Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RJUCPU wrote:
To me, there has never been anything in this game more stupid and flagrantly exploited as freestyle vocals (although shaking your damn leg to get vibrato is pretty close).

Yeah, I remember a thread, a few years ago, about different techniques to get vibrato, including shaking arms and legs. That was hilarious. And I agree about FS.

Thank you everyone for the clarification, I appreciated it.
_________________
FGFC: RB4, RB3, RB2, Lego, TB:RB, GD:RB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: Io LP oI
r0bd0g  





Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 327
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In RB3 (apparently it was patched at some point in RB4), if you pause during an activation, on any instrument, your activation gets longer. The Wii version still lets you pause as many times as you want, so in theory you could probably cover the whole song in OD by pausing perfectly over and over.

RJUCPU said: "You can't get extra OD from pausing anymore. That was fixed with the patch in RB3 when they also added the maximum times you can pause before your score turns to zero."
This is not true. They only limited the number of times you can pause. You can still use the pauses that you do have to your advantage. (It was not fixed until that patch in RB4, as your edit says.)

If you get extra points as a result of this glitch (very easy to do accidentally), the score is considered to have been cheated as far as submitting to SH, as far as I know. But for minor things, say like where you only manage to get a few extra ticks, it's impossible to police, I guess? Don't tell me I'm wrong about this. Iggy wasn't allowed to keep his super-optimal score on I Got You (I Feel Good), which used a handful of pauses (it could be as few as 1 or 2 pauses; nobody knows the exact number required) to make an activation squeeze to chain an OD phrase that would otherwise have been just barely impossible.

IndestructibleSD said: "It definitely provides an advantage because the rewind allows you to line up the correct pitch on the squeezed phrase ... [it] doesn't increase OD"
This is not true in RB3 -- it does increase OD. There's no way to pause to line up squeezes without having the pause-extend OD glitch simultaneously occur. Anybody who does this is probably getting super-optimal scores on occasion.

So which glitches are allowed on SH and in which situations is very poorly defined and nobody really knows what's cheating and what isn't. Good luck out there!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
singemfrc  





Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 4406
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IndestructibleSD wrote:
singemfrc wrote:
Pausing once to prepare to hit a small window or pausing to intentionally "kill" an od phrase are not cheating.

Spamming the pause button to back the highway up and gain points you couldn't otherwise gain is cheating, and the game will zero your score if you do it enough.

Agreed, but I think the grey area most people are talking about is pausing to line up a squeeze. It definitely provides an advantage because the rewind allows you to line up the correct pitch on the squeezed phrase (useful for quick phrase transitions, catching your breath, and making sure you are directly lined up on the starting pitch)

This technique doesn't work in full band and would not be allowed at a "live" RB competition (not that there are any of those anymore), but it is something available in solo play that doesn't increase OD or leverage a known exploit. Not advocating for or against it, but it is out there.
That is not a cheat or exploit, it's just a single pause, and that is perfectly allowable.
_________________
PSN: singemfrc
Twitch: singemfrcps
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail PSN Name: singemfrc
IndestructibleSD  





Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 1382
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singemfrc wrote:
IndestructibleSD wrote:
singemfrc wrote:
Pausing once to prepare to hit a small window or pausing to intentionally "kill" an od phrase are not cheating.

Spamming the pause button to back the highway up and gain points you couldn't otherwise gain is cheating, and the game will zero your score if you do it enough.

Agreed, but I think the grey area most people are talking about is pausing to line up a squeeze. It definitely provides an advantage because the rewind allows you to line up the correct pitch on the squeezed phrase (useful for quick phrase transitions, catching your breath, and making sure you are directly lined up on the starting pitch)

This technique doesn't work in full band and would not be allowed at a "live" RB competition (not that there are any of those anymore), but it is something available in solo play that doesn't increase OD or leverage a known exploit. Not advocating for or against it, but it is out there.
That is not a cheat or exploit, it's just a single pause, and that is perfectly allowable.

Right, but what if the song has many ESFs? Then we're talking about multiple pauses within a song (less than 10, so as to avoid the score being set to 0).

/u/pksage (HMX) provided the most comprehensive definition to date of what is/isn't exploiting in RB Rivals a recent reddit post. Pausing definitely falls under the "wouldn't be allowed in a live Rock Band competition" clause, even if it isn't specifically mentioned in his post. Guess we won't know until a crew is demoted for it though, since that seems to be the precedent with behavior HMX doesn't find acceptable.
_________________
dbforthree, Expert Vocalist PS4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website PSN Name: dbforthree
GingerBraFace  





Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Santraginus V

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess if HMX isn't cool with it, that's pretty definitive. Was this glitch only patched out of RB3 on Xbox and PS3? If so, wouldn't that mean that there are scores on the leaderboards from before that, that aren't possible for those who updated?
_________________
Please, call me Ginger :D

Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message Visit poster's website XBL Gamertag: GingerBraFace PSN Name: GingerBraFace Wii Friend Code: 390546319559
singemfrc  





Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 4406
Location: California

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah but we're not a live competition. Even with multiple ESFs, you're only pausing once per activation. That's fine here. Pausing in and of itself is a behavior designed and expected, even if you are basically using it as a crutch. Some people may look down upon it, but the bottom line is it is not prohibited on Scorehero. Even when we run leagues that isn't against the rules, because it's still not designed to be live.
_________________
PSN: singemfrc
Twitch: singemfrcps
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail PSN Name: singemfrc
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    ScoreHero Forum Index -> Technique, Style, and Gameplay -> Vocals All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Copyright © 2006-2024 ScoreHero, LLC
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy


Powered by phpBB