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Mechanics discussion for Blitz
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JCirri  
 




Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jawnintendo wrote:
The score breakdown doesn't add up to the total score. What happened here?

Also, there is no way in hell that Super Drums can end in anything other than 5 or 0.

I'm pretty sure I know what happened there as it's happened to me a few times until I realized what was going on.

If you quickly press A to skip to the next screen while the breakdown numbers are changing / adding up, they'll freeze at whatever they're at and when you press B to go back, that's what you'll see. I've even had it once where I was tapping A repeatedly as the screen popped up, and went back to see all 0s in the breakdown.

In this case it looks like the Super Drums score (last one to appear on screen) didn't finish adding up before you went to the next screen. Since I've discovered that I've been cautious to make sure the numbers are solid before proceeding.
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Bront  
 




Joined: 09 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCirri wrote:
jawnintendo wrote:
The score breakdown doesn't add up to the total score. What happened here?

Also, there is no way in hell that Super Drums can end in anything other than 5 or 0.

I'm pretty sure I know what happened there as it's happened to me a few times until I realized what was going on.

If you quickly press A to skip to the next screen while the breakdown numbers are changing / adding up, they'll freeze at whatever they're at and when you press B to go back, that's what you'll see. I've even had it once where I was tapping A repeatedly as the screen popped up, and went back to see all 0s in the breakdown.

In this case it looks like the Super Drums score (last one to appear on screen) didn't finish adding up before you went to the next screen. Since I've discovered that I've been cautious to make sure the numbers are solid before proceeding.
Yes, this exactly what happened. It's rather annoying.
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Yusuke  
 




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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, upon playing Maps with Super Drums, I made the realization that the multipliers for the super instruments are not all 1.5x like Super Guitar is. Do we know what they all are?

Turns out Super Keys, Super Bass and Super Drums are 1.75x, with the odd multipliers rounding down. I believe it just truncates them, actually. Super Vocals is actually a 2x multiplier.
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iamchris4life  
 




Joined: 08 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barfo wrote:
Just speaking of sustains in general, has anybody worked out the precise value of sustains compared to single notes. Specifically the quantity im interested in is an estimate (or precise value) for at what note density a string of notes is worth as much as hitting a single sustain note over that length of time (not accoutning for blitz points or hitting multi up targets). Its pretty clear that the ratio of sustain notes/regular notes is worth a lot more than in RB/GH, but i am sort of curious a more precise measure, particularly how it would relate to weighing the points of the post last checkpoint area of a song as it would relate to super instrument choice. I have ideas on how to try and estimate it, but i dont want to duplicate effort if somebody already figured it out


1 beat of a 1 note sustain is worth the same as 2 single notes.

Now here's a post I never got an answer to in the rockband.com forums:

1. There seems to be two categories of Overdrive power-ups:

1.i. One that I can activate multiple times, with each activation depleting a fixed amount of OD, i.e. Bottle Rocket. Does each activation drain the same fraction of my OD meter for each of the power-ups of this category?

1.ii. One that I can activate once, with the OD meter gradually decreasing over time, i.e. Jackpot. Once activated, does my OD meter drain at the same rate for each of the power-ups of this category?

2. Given I hit an OD note, is the fraction of my OD meter that's filled the same for all OD power-ups?

2.i. More specifically, for the power-ups in 1.ii., what is this gain of my OD meter in terms of OD notes per measure (or the reciprocal)? For example, if I hit 10 OD notes then that will be worth 1 measure (4 beats) of Jackpot once activated (which is a completely made-up statistic). Furthermore, what is the OD meter's capacity in terms of measures?

2.ii. In general, I know that 1 beat of a single sustain note is worth the same as 2 regular notes. Does this metric also hold for the amount of OD meter gained from sustains, i.e. is 1 beat of a single OD sustain worth the same as 2 OD notes in terms of OD acquired, or is it worth something less?
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Infil  
 




Joined: 29 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure you get less OD meter for a hold than you would if you were playing the equivalent value of points per note. At least, it seems to be this way when I'm playing. I haven't done hard science on it but it's my understanding. (Playing to compile these stats, it's hard to do science on it but you definitely aren't getting much meter for hold notes)

You get a set amount of OD per note you play. So, if you get a section of the song where every track has OD, you want to be playing the track with the most notes, because you get more OD meter. You'll get double the OD meter for playing a double note.

It takes 60 individual notes (less if you do holds, doubles count as 2 individual notes) to build a full OD bar. So then, in a song where eighth notes are the norm, it takes you two measures of OD meter (15-16 notes, depending on where they cut it off) to gain 1/4 of your bar, enough to use road rage or jackpot.

OD does not seem to drain at the same rate for all powerups (bandmate, jackpot, score doubler). Score doubler drained at 8 measures for a full bar, or roughly 1 measure for every 8ish notes of OD you collect. Band mate and jackpot seemed to be a little faster... I could only get 7 and a half measures out of them. I don't know if I was just miscounting or what, but I definitely ended directly in the middle of a measure. I didn't acquire OD meter while it was running either. Maybe it's weird because jackpot and bandmate both essentially have a countdown timer to when they start? I timed my jackpot so that the 3x multiplier popped up directly on a measure break, but... maybe the 3-2-1 countdown counts towards your "8 measure" timer even though you don't use meter for it? Weird stuff there. But it's "roughly" 7.5-8 measures for a full bar.

Hopefully this helps. If I made a mistake, let me know.

- Infil
Xbox Live tag: Infilament. I'm kinda hanging around the top of some of the leaderboards.

P.S. Has anyone confirmed the method x jay 117 x is using for some of his scores? Is it really just an insane jackpot + flame notes run always? He's got like 300-400k points higher than the next place on competitive leaderboards.
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singemfrc  
 




Joined: 10 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infil wrote:
You get a set amount of OD per note you play. So, if you get a section of the song where every track has OD, you want to be playing the track with the most notes, because you get more OD meter. You'll get double the OD meter for playing a double note.
In any given od section there is a certain amount of od you get per note plus a bonus if you get all the od notes, but its not the more notes the more od, in fact it's kind of the opposite.

The amount of OD you get is reversely porportional to the amount of overall notes in that lane for the current checkpoint (more notes, less od; less notes, more od) - on a song with a dense chart on g/b/d/v you can pick up a keyboard od sustain that fills your entire bar wheras one of the other lanes might not even give you a quarter bar.
Infil wrote:
P.S. Has anyone confirmed the method x jay 117 x is using for some of his scores? Is it really just an insane jackpot + flame notes run always? He's got like 300-400k points higher than the next place on competitive leaderboards.
You can easily get that much or more with jack+flame since each flame note under jackpot is worth like 5k.
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zage1337  
 




Joined: 20 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infil wrote:

P.S. Has anyone confirmed the method x jay 117 x is using for some of his scores? Is it really just an insane jackpot + flame notes run always? He's got like 300-400k points higher than the next place on competitive leaderboards.


I'm willing to bet he's abusing Jackpot and Flame notes. That combo together is ridiculous overpowered if you are skilled enough to switch lanes and catch the notes under jackpot. I pretty much use that combo now except on on long and dense songs where I benefit more on Blast Notes and need to quickly get my multipliers up, and I occasionally use Pinball for the lulz.
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Infil  
 




Joined: 29 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singemfrc wrote:
Infil wrote:
You get a set amount of OD per note you play. So, if you get a section of the song where every track has OD, you want to be playing the track with the most notes, because you get more OD meter. You'll get double the OD meter for playing a double note.
In any given od section there is a certain amount of od you get per note plus a bonus if you get all the od notes, but its not the more notes the more od, in fact it's kind of the opposite.

The amount of OD you get is reversely porportional to the amount of overall notes in that lane for the current checkpoint (more notes, less od; less notes, more od) - on a song with a dense chart on g/b/d/v you can pick up a keyboard od sustain that fills your entire bar wheras one of the other lanes might not even give you a quarter bar.


Interesting, I hadn't noticed this. The song I did my experiments on was fairly consistent across all instruments, I didn't think to try it on other songs with varying density of notes.

So in reality if you see a part of the song with OD across all tracks, you want to play the track that has the least amount of overall notes in that section? Probably vocals or keys in most cases? It's probably almost always a bad idea to play guitar in these cases, even if guitar has a few extra notes of OD compared to the other tracks?
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iamchris4life  
 




Joined: 08 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infil wrote:
It takes 60 individual notes (less if you do holds, doubles count as 2 individual notes) to build a full OD bar. So then, in a song where eighth notes are the norm, it takes you two measures of OD meter (15-16 notes, depending on where they cut it off) to gain 1/4 of your bar, enough to use road rage or jackpot.


This is wrong. Song length (or something correlated with song length) contributes to how much OD you get per note. When I played a 20 minute song, which was 2112 by Rush, the amount of OD I'd get per note would be almost negligible compared to normal.

Infil wrote:
P.S. Has anyone confirmed the method x jay 117 x is using for some of his scores? Is it really just an insane jackpot + flame notes run always? He's got like 300-400k points higher than the next place on competitive leaderboards.


I'm pretty much the only person who can beat x jay 117 x's 1st place scores. We've had numerous interactions discussing strategy:

We were both initially using Jackpot/Blast notes to beat each other's scores, then I discovered Jackpot/Flame notes and beat all of his scores in pretty much one sitting. After a while it became absurd that I could obliterate any 1st place score by 200k+, so I decided to level the playing field and fill him in on the fact that Jackpot/Flame notes were significantly more powerful than Jackpot/Blast notes. Ever since then, we've been crushing each other's 1st place scores back and forth (as you can see from the leaderboards of the songs from All That Remains, System Of A Down, and Avenged Sevenfold. We've each reclaimed 1st place about 6-7 times for these songs). We've come to realize that the max potential of Jackpot/Flame notes is essentially limitless and grows with one's skill in swift and flawless lane switching
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singemfrc  
 




Joined: 10 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infil wrote:
So in reality if you see a part of the song with OD across all tracks, you want to play the track that has the least amount of overall notes in that section? Probably vocals or keys in most cases? It's probably almost always a bad idea to play guitar in these cases, even if guitar has a few extra notes of OD compared to the other tracks?
Yep, always pick up od in the slowest section wherever possible, which for most songs is keys, vox, bass, drums, guitar in that order.

iamchris4life wrote:
This is wrong. Song length (or something correlated with song length) contributes to how much OD you get per note. When I played a 20 minute song, which was 2112 by Rush, the amount of OD I'd get per note would be almost negligible compared to normal.
I don't think it's length of song as much as it is # of notes in the song. Guitar on 2112 probably gets you next to nothing since it's consistent throughout the song, vocals or bass would probably get more.
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espher  
 




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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singemfrc wrote:
I don't think it's length of song as much as it is # of notes in the song. Guitar on 2112 probably gets you next to nothing since it's consistent throughout the song, vocals or bass would probably get more.


I always thought it was tied to the number of notes for that instrument (or the number of OD phrases?) in the current section (between checkpoints), but I've never tested it.
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Infil  
 




Joined: 29 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tons of #1 overall scores, but ever since I saw how much chris and jay could beat my scores almost at will, I was realizing I would only be keeping #1 on the songs that they chose not to play, heh. I knew there was a part of strategy I was missing, and this definitely is it.

Do you find jackpot + flame notes fun to play? To me it seems so random and so high-stress, it takes the fun out of the game for me. Like, I don't know how you guys can manage to keep the flame notes going for any substantial period of time on 5 track songs, especially considering a twitch lane switch to hit a flame note is likely to end your jackpot. Eventually you just... start to guess? How quickly do you give up on flame notes and then just play the rest of the jackpot? I kind of wish I could see a video of a good run on a song with good note density and at least 4 tracks, because I'm not entirely sure how a lot of skill can downplay the luck factor of flame notes. Sure you can switch tracks well, but you still have human reaction time and must eventually rely on guesses after the 5th or so flame note?

Also, does anyone have precise details on how pinball works? Does it net you more points on dense songs, or is it just a counter tied to the BPM/speed of the pinball that increases points earned as it ticks?
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singemfrc  
 




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infil wrote:
Do you find jackpot + flame notes fun to play? To me it seems so random and so high-stress, it takes the fun out of the game for me. Like, I don't know how you guys can manage to keep the flame notes going for any substantial period of time on 5 track songs, especially considering a twitch lane switch to hit a flame note is likely to end your jackpot.
Sometimes it's fun, usually it's high stress. At first I didn't do it at all, now I do it but I try not to worry about getting every last point, I get what flames I can get and then move on. Still usually end up with a higher score than blast notes.

Infil wrote:
Eventually you just... start to guess?
There is some guessing involved, but there are certain behavior patterns you can use to your advantage. They almost always spawn one track to the right or left, and the number of notes ahead decreases with every note hit. If you can hit a couple of parallel notes you can end up with multiple flames in the same lane which = big points.

Infil wrote:
How quickly do you give up on flame notes and then just play the rest of the jackpot? I kind of wish I could see a video of a good run on a song with good note density and at least 4 tracks, because I'm not entirely sure how a lot of skill can downplay the luck factor of flame notes. Sure you can switch tracks well, but you still have human reaction time and must eventually rely on guesses after the 5th or so flame note?
It just depends on how many points I've picked up, how much OD I have left, and how dense the adjacent lanes are. It's almost always wise to intentionally let the flames go if you're out of OD so that you can pick up OD in time for the next flame section.

Infil wrote:
Also, does anyone have precise details on how pinball works? Does it net you more points on dense songs, or is it just a counter tied to the BPM/speed of the pinball that increases points earned as it ticks?
I don't know the exact numbers but you get more points for each note the pinball hits, so you definitely get more points on dense songs, though it is harder to keep up with the pinball if you're also actually playing the song (which sadly isn't always required for a good score).
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zage1337  
 




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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any strategies for dealing with charts with inactive instruments. Like We Are Young(guitar doesn't come in until the 2nd verse)?

I having a great deal of difficulty trying to even reach 500k(only ever did once) on We Are Young by Fun. The issue is flame notes are so weird when it comes to inactive instruments. Are you suppose to just try to get all the flames you can or intentionally leave them out?

The top score is like 544k and most of the time I am like 100k short, even with getting a couple of 100k+ jackpots. It's also the reason I found Pumped Up Kicks all about luck.
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TheLonging  
 




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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's also a problem, I find, with songs where there's a real long extended break between when an instrument ends and where it picks up again (My Sharona, GG&HT, The Wicker Man). If the wait is relatively short, you could risk going for the flame and getting as much as you can out of it. If it's a long wait, you're better off using something else like Blast.
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