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Mechanics discussion for Blitz
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dore  





Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: Boone, NC

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barfo wrote:
Just speaking of sustains in general, has anybody worked out the precise value of sustains compared to single notes. Specifically the quantity im interested in is an estimate (or precise value) for at what note density a string of notes is worth as much as hitting a single sustain note over that length of time (not accoutning for blitz points or hitting multi up targets). Its pretty clear that the ratio of sustain notes/regular notes is worth a lot more than in RB/GH, but i am sort of curious a more precise measure, particularly how it would relate to weighing the points of the post last checkpoint area of a song as it would relate to super instrument choice. I have ideas on how to try and estimate it, but i dont want to duplicate effort if somebody already figured it out


I've been meaning to try that out but haven't yet. I'll post when I do
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Bront  





Joined: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chucklestyle wrote:
All I can add to this is that:

a: I've been able to "squeeze" a multiplier if the note required to increase it is exactly on the checkpoint by hitting it early.

This I think is by design
Chucklestyle wrote:
b: road rage used effectively can actually hit notes behind a checkpoint, effectively pulling them back into the current checkpoint and increasing your multiplier on the current section. A couple of times I've actually been able to increase multiplier beyond what would be possible in certain sections. Handy for getting your multiplier up early on or grabbing a bit of extra juice towards one on a sparse section.
Any ability that hits notes beyond the gate will do this. The only thing is at the gate when you pass it is when it checks your multiplier, so you can squeeze a multiplier out with Band Mate (it launches forward when you start it), Road Rage, Rocket, or even a well placed blast note will do it.
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insomniacdude  





Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anybody know for sure how the checkpoints are divided? Is it just the section breakdown that shows if you take a song into practice mode in RB3? I don't know if that's 100%, because there's always a gate before a solo.
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Barfo  





Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 2596

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chucklestyle wrote:
a: I've been able to "squeeze" a multiplier if the note required to increase it is exactly on the checkpoint by hitting it early.

Im not sure if its really squeezing to do this - Ive noticed that I get the level up every time when I hit a note on the checkpoint that awards a crucial multiplier (ie raises the lowest one in the batch), and i dont recall missing one in this way due to being too late, and I asumed that it just was part of the game that if you hit the note on the checkpoint line that counts in the previous section. Ive probably have that occur at least a handful to a dozen times, esp since i play so much without powerups. Maybe though I just tend to play by default a bit early - this should be easy to test by setting up a situation on a slowish song and intentionally hitting the notes late to see what the multi cap does.
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TheLonging  





Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

insomniacdude wrote:
Does anybody know for sure how the checkpoints are divided? Is it just the section breakdown that shows if you take a song into practice mode in RB3? I don't know if that's 100%, because there's always a gate before a solo.


A lot of RBN songs have checkpoints at random places where they don't make sense, so I'd figure for the most part, with the exception of checkpoints at solos.
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Bront  





Joined: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheLonging wrote:
insomniacdude wrote:
Does anybody know for sure how the checkpoints are divided? Is it just the section breakdown that shows if you take a song into practice mode in RB3? I don't know if that's 100%, because there's always a gate before a solo.


A lot of RBN songs have checkpoints at random places where they don't make sense, so I'd figure for the most part, with the exception of checkpoints at solos.
Same here, though I didn't check out many RBN songs, there usually seems to be a checkpoint at the start of a solo though.
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ShiftBreaker  





Joined: 17 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There always seems to be a break when a solo starts unless it's directly followed by another solo i.e. Spoonman.

I am curious though about the Ziltoid songs on RBN. What's the one that has a bunch of one note solos in it? By Your Command? How does that work on Blitz?

EDIT: On the subject of solos, seeing as it's not too far off topic, what's the most amount of points that anyone's managed to get out of solos in one song before the 35% limit kicked in? Somehow Thunder Kill '65 managed to avoid the solo limit and I got 100,000 from all 5 perfect solos, but are there any more solos in songs that have been managed to be squeezed in? Also, and somewhat more useful to know in retrospect, but do solo bonuses also count towards your star count as they do in RB3? It could lead to an explanation as to why they are limited to 5k/10k/20k, irrelevant of length and amount of notes.
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espher  





Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 1777
Location: Fredericton, NB, CA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to note that the OCD completionist in me is not happy with the fact that anyone can jump in to polish off your goals and snipe credit.

I was grinding through a bunch of the goals I have left and about to hop over to RB3 to do Hardest Button to Button for the Jack White goal, and I noticed someone flew in to get that song to finish the goal.

Seeing 4,615 coins in my list of nice, multiple-of-ten numbers is annoying. :|

(Edit: I will not be denied my Grohl Goal, mind you.)
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Last edited by espher on Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Hobo111  





Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 3414

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShiftBreaker wrote:
EDIT: On the subject of solos, seeing as it's not too far off topic, what's the most amount of points that anyone's managed to get out of solos in one song before the 35% limit kicked in? Somehow Thunder Kill '65 managed to avoid the solo limit and I got 100,000 from all 5 perfect solos, but are there any more solos in songs that have been managed to be squeezed in?.
6 solos in In The Wake of Evolution, 5 guitar and one keys.
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omimann  





Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 230
Location: Duisburg, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hobo111 wrote:
ShiftBreaker wrote:
EDIT: On the subject of solos, seeing as it's not too far off topic, what's the most amount of points that anyone's managed to get out of solos in one song before the 35% limit kicked in? Somehow Thunder Kill '65 managed to avoid the solo limit and I got 100,000 from all 5 perfect solos, but are there any more solos in songs that have been managed to be squeezed in?.
6 solos in In The Wake of Evolution, 5 guitar and one keys.


Nihilanth's 9 guitar solos also somehow managed to stay under 35% of the total song. Adding the drum solo at the end of the song that makes 200,000 possible points just by solos, though some of them are just plain hard because of those stupidly fast RLLRLL patterns
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Barfo  





Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 2596

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So i did a little bit of exploratory playing to try and figure out some mechanics. Used the song Master/Slave by Pearl Jam due to it only has 3 lanes (no vox), and its realtively slow and short. The two issues that I was interested in exploring first were the question of what exactly leads to the choice of home many notes you need to hit for a multi up on a lane, as well as trying to figure out a rough idea of what relation there might be between the star cutoffs.

Don't have the data in front of me right now (on jr legal pad at home), but i made some definite progress on the first point. The song has two checkpoints, so three sections total, and what i did was I attempted to count notes on each lane in each section to note down the amount of notes that occur in the section (note occurring right at the checkpoint counts as being in the section before the checkpoint), and the number of notes needed to be hit per multi up. First off as you might expect the amount of notes needed for each multi up seems to be constant based on the section (regardless of current multiplier and reproducible on separate runs). I was not able to count each lane in each section of the song sometimes the note density was too high to do at full speed (eventually ill try and dig out my gamebridge and generate some vids that i can then analyze at slower rates to get better counts), but for the 7 or so sections i was able to count there was a single relation that explained all the data: # notes per multi up = # of notes in section / 9, with the result seeming to be rounded up or down to the nearest integer. So for example first section of the drums has 112 notes and takes 12 notes per multi up (112/9 = 12.44 ~= 12), while one of hte other ones (i forget which one withotu the data in front of me) had 68 notes and took 8 per multi up (68/9 = 7.55 ~= 8). The number 9 seems very predictable too, as with three lanes to level up, and with 3 multi levels needed to cap each section 1/9 is an equal portion of the notes in each section to just cap all tracks. I hypothesize that for songs with 4 and 5 instruments, that the constant may be 12 and 15 (needs to be tested).

In terms of star counts I only just barely started but it looked like there was a fairly predictable pattern to the 1,2,3 star scores. What i was doign was playign ot very close on the onscreen meter then hitting individual notes until one triggered the star award, whcih then bounds the cutoff by the value of the note hit. I can then go back and do similar narrowing by going for exact scores. Sepaking of that, I also nabbed this little bit of fun:


Things that make exact sores easier in this game are the automatic no-fail, and the huge variety of note options at any given point since you have 3-5 lanes ot choose from. Things that make it tough are the extremely variable points per note (since the note value evolves over the course of the song), and the finale points which mean that to get a given exact score you actually have to stop before the target score and let the finale points push you to it.
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Yusuke  





Joined: 04 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barfo wrote:
So i did a little bit of exploratory playing to try and figure out some mechanics. Used the song Master/Slave by Pearl Jam due to it only has 3 lanes (no vox), and its realtively slow and short. The two issues that I was interested in exploring first were the question of what exactly leads to the choice of home many notes you need to hit for a multi up on a lane, as well as trying to figure out a rough idea of what relation there might be between the star cutoffs.

Don't have the data in front of me right now (on jr legal pad at home), but i made some definite progress on the first point. The song has two checkpoints, so three sections total, and what i did was I attempted to count notes on each lane in each section to note down the amount of notes that occur in the section (note occurring right at the checkpoint counts as being in the section before the checkpoint), and the number of notes needed to be hit per multi up. First off as you might expect the amount of notes needed for each multi up seems to be constant based on the section (regardless of current multiplier and reproducible on separate runs). I was not able to count each lane in each section of the song sometimes the note density was too high to do at full speed (eventually ill try and dig out my gamebridge and generate some vids that i can then analyze at slower rates to get better counts), but for the 7 or so sections i was able to count there was a single relation that explained all the data: # notes per multi up = # of notes in section / 9, with the result seeming to be rounded up or down to the nearest integer. So for example first section of the drums has 112 notes and takes 12 notes per multi up (112/9 = 12.44 ~= 12), while one of hte other ones (i forget which one withotu the data in front of me) had 68 notes and took 8 per multi up (68/9 = 7.55 ~= 8). The number 9 seems very predictable too, as with three lanes to level up, and with 3 multi levels needed to cap each section 1/9 is an equal portion of the notes in each section to just cap all tracks. I hypothesize that for songs with 4 and 5 instruments, that the constant may be 12 and 15 (needs to be tested).

In terms of star counts I only just barely started but it looked like there was a fairly predictable pattern to the 1,2,3 star scores. What i was doign was playign ot very close on the onscreen meter then hitting individual notes until one triggered the star award, whcih then bounds the cutoff by the value of the note hit. I can then go back and do similar narrowing by going for exact scores. Sepaking of that, I also nabbed this little bit of fun:


Things that make exact sores easier in this game are the automatic no-fail, and the huge variety of note options at any given point since you have 3-5 lanes ot choose from. Things that make it tough are the extremely variable points per note (since the note value evolves over the course of the song), and the finale points which mean that to get a given exact score you actually have to stop before the target score and let the finale points push you to it.


inb4 Barfo b1337zifies his entire setlist.
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jawnintendo  





Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 1202
Location: Edinburg, VA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Yes there is a reason I'm posting this.

The score breakdown doesn't add up to the total score. What happened here?

Also, there is no way in hell that Super Drums can end in anything other than 5 or 0.
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espher  





Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jawnintendo wrote:
Also, there is no way in hell that Super Drums can end in anything other than 5 or 0.


Speculation: It's been deduced that the Blitz drum chart, for some notes, draws off the authored animation notes in addition to the drum chart. Looking at Orange Crush's drum .mid, there is one authored crash note and one hi-hat note in the animation track with a length longer than 1/32nd. Is it possible Blitz is treating it as a short sustain?
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Yusuke  





Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 1663

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anything, i'm wondering why you only score 2k on your super drums. I dont think ive ever scored that low on a super instrument.
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