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Rock Band: Harmonies Project (Latest: 07/04/03)
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DorkmasterFlek  





Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anybody else is deciding to help out with this awesome project (I have a couple upgrades I did myself earlier while trying to figure out how to make this work which I'll be contributing) and you have some sort of capture device for recording videos, I have a suggestion to make charting the harmonies easier. If you have two guitars and a drum kit, hook up all three in RB3 and turn on All Instruments Mode and no-fail, then play the song in the music video venue and let the instruments miss everything, and record the whole thing. That should take the volume of the instrument tracks way down and make it much easier to pick out the vocal lines. Of course, if you happen to have your computer near or hooked up to your TV, you don't actually need to record the playthrough.
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wlinn751 wrote:
Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly.
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espher  





Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 1777
Location: Fredericton, NB, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DorkmasterFlek wrote:
If anybody else is deciding to help out with this awesome project (I have a couple upgrades I did myself earlier while trying to figure out how to make this work which I'll be contributing) and you have some sort of capture device for recording videos, I have a suggestion to make charting the harmonies easier. If you have two guitars and a drum kit, hook up all three in RB3 and turn on All Instruments Mode and no-fail, then play the song in the music video venue and let the instruments miss everything, and record the whole thing. That should take the volume of the instrument tracks way down and make it much easier to pick out the vocal lines. Of course, if you happen to have your computer near or hooked up to your TV, you don't actually need to record the playthrough.


Sometimes you can actually find isolated vocal tracks on YouTube and the like as well, though these don't always include the backing vocals. Getting the vocal + backing track is certainly the best way to do it, particularly if you can get them in distinct playthroughs so you have two isolated files. :p
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Bigjoe5  





Joined: 27 Apr 2011
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DorkmasterFlek wrote:
If anybody else is deciding to help out with this awesome project (I have a couple upgrades I did myself earlier while trying to figure out how to make this work which I'll be contributing) and you have some sort of capture device for recording videos, I have a suggestion to make charting the harmonies easier. If you have two guitars and a drum kit, hook up all three in RB3 and turn on All Instruments Mode and no-fail, then play the song in the music video venue and let the instruments miss everything, and record the whole thing. That should take the volume of the instrument tracks way down and make it much easier to pick out the vocal lines. Of course, if you happen to have your computer near or hooked up to your TV, you don't actually need to record the playthrough.
Setting "Instruments Volume", "Sound FX Volume" and "Crowd Volume" to 0 in the audio options menu should help with this as well, and eliminate the need to get a music video venue.
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farottone  





Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the official DLC and on disc songs and all of the widely known songs have tabs and/or midi transcription available. There's no better way to chart vocals than official transcriptions or MIDI sequenced files, even more so when it comes to backing vocals and harmonies.
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DorkmasterFlek  





Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigjoe5 wrote:
DorkmasterFlek wrote:
If anybody else is deciding to help out with this awesome project (I have a couple upgrades I did myself earlier while trying to figure out how to make this work which I'll be contributing) and you have some sort of capture device for recording videos, I have a suggestion to make charting the harmonies easier. If you have two guitars and a drum kit, hook up all three in RB3 and turn on All Instruments Mode and no-fail, then play the song in the music video venue and let the instruments miss everything, and record the whole thing. That should take the volume of the instrument tracks way down and make it much easier to pick out the vocal lines. Of course, if you happen to have your computer near or hooked up to your TV, you don't actually need to record the playthrough.
Setting "Instruments Volume", "Sound FX Volume" and "Crowd Volume" to 0 in the audio options menu should help with this as well, and eliminate the need to get a music video venue.

I think "instruments" volume might include the vocal track. I'm not sure. I assumed it meant all the playable tracks. The music video venue was just a side effect of using AIM so you have one less controller to worry about. Although it does have the benefit of having no crowd.
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wlinn751 wrote:
Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly.
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espher  





Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 1777
Location: Fredericton, NB, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

farottone wrote:
Most of the official DLC and on disc songs and all of the widely known songs have tabs and/or midi transcription available. There's no better way to chart vocals than official transcriptions or MIDI sequenced files, even more so when it comes to backing vocals and harmonies.


I've tried using other mid files for things and usually the lead vocal is the only reliable thing. Keys and/or backup vocals seem to be a crap shoot tbh. If there are any songs where I find I have trouble picking a note out of the mix or something I'll definitely give it another pass, mind you.
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DorkmasterFlek  





Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm this doesn't seem to be working for me. I'm trying to keep a USB stick with TU5 and an offline profile that holds the dummy DTA and all the upgrade files. I unplugged my HD and built a song cache using just the USB stick. Then I copied the song cache plus all the upgrade files (NOT the dummy DTA because the instructions said to remove it) to the HD and removed the USB stick from the picture. Loaded RB3 again and built the rest of the song cache, no dice. Am I missing something possibly surrounding copying the song cache I built to the HD?
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wlinn751 wrote:
Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly.
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espher  





Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 1777
Location: Fredericton, NB, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DorkmasterFlek wrote:
Hmm this doesn't seem to be working for me. I'm trying to keep a USB stick with TU5 and an offline profile that holds the dummy DTA and all the upgrade files. I unplugged my HD and built a song cache using just the USB stick. Then I copied the song cache plus all the upgrade files (NOT the dummy DTA because the instructions said to remove it) to the HD and removed the USB stick from the picture. Loaded RB3 again and built the rest of the song cache, no dice. Am I missing something possibly surrounding copying the song cache I built to the HD?


Do you have TU5 on both drives? I noticed that I was rebuilding the entire cache (not merely adding the new songs) when I'd reconnect my hard drive (i.e. it was loading ~1,100 new pieces of content instead of just ~850), unless I had the title update on both drives. I have no idea why, but that is what had happened to me. Maybe move the TU over as well with the cache.

If it's faster, add me on one of the myriad IM programs found vvvvv and I can try and troubleshoot. :p
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DorkmasterFlek  





Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah ha, I got it! Yes, I did make sure I had TU5 on both the USB stick and the HD. I'm not sure why, but I tried copying over the dummy DTA package as well just on a lark. It worked and the songs read the upgraded number of vocal parts, but trying to load them caused an error saying "song is unavailable" and booting me back to the main menu, presumably because it was the dummy package.

However, I removed the dummy package after I did this and everything worked! I was running through some of the charts in practice mode. It seems like you need to keep the dummy DTA file(s) for the first full build of the entire cache, then delete them. Harmony upgrades, here we come!
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wlinn751 wrote:
Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly.
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espher  





Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 1777
Location: Fredericton, NB, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DorkmasterFlek wrote:
Ah ha, I got it! Yes, I did make sure I had TU5 on both the USB stick and the HD. I'm not sure why, but I tried copying over the dummy DTA package as well just on a lark. It worked and the songs read the upgraded number of vocal parts, but trying to load them caused an error saying "song is unavailable" and booting me back to the main menu, presumably because it was the dummy package.

However, I removed the dummy package after I did this and everything worked! I was running through some of the charts in practice mode. It seems like you need to keep the dummy DTA file(s) for the first full build of the entire cache, then delete them. Harmony upgrades, here we come!


Hmm, weird. Well, if other people have that problem, that's one other fix. Maybe I had left it on my USB drive by mistake before deleting it and thought /that/ was the fix, haha.

If it can get loaded at the same time as the rest of the tracks, well... that'll speed this whole thing up. ;)

Edit: I would also like to thank everyone for not noticing my typo of 'foreword' on the Instructions page.
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espher  





Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 1777
Location: Fredericton, NB, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried to go 'direct' with the build by moving the dummy .dta right onto the hard drive, and only doing one cache build, but that did not work. It builds the entire package at once, but for a reason I cannot figure out (maybe date order?), it opts to load the RB1 tracks with only one vocal part.

So, having tested it one more time, it looks like the cleanest installation method, for now, is as follows:

1) Delete your song cache.
2) Put the dummy dta package on your USB drive.
3) Disconnect your hard drive.
4) Boot RB3 and rebuild the cache.
5) Shut down your Xbox and reconnect your hard drive.
6) Boot RB3 and build the rest of the cache.
7) Delete the dummy dta package from your USB drive. (moved this step to after a point where the cache does its final build)
8) Installation complete (i.e. Boot RB3 and play.)

If this method doesn't work, the first troubleshooting step is to copy the dummy package to your hard drive before step six (the step Flek said he had to take).

In personal exciting news, I'm trying to use these with my TU4 setup, and I can't get the upgrade to take on the 'fake' Dani California export I had, haha. Guess I'll just repackage that one with a new .dta.
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lawrencein  





Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 180
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

espher wrote:
DorkmasterFlek wrote:
Ah ha, I got it! Yes, I did make sure I had TU5 on both the USB stick and the HD. I'm not sure why, but I tried copying over the dummy DTA package as well just on a lark. It worked and the songs read the upgraded number of vocal parts, but trying to load them caused an error saying "song is unavailable" and booting me back to the main menu, presumably because it was the dummy package.

However, I removed the dummy package after I did this and everything worked! I was running through some of the charts in practice mode. It seems like you need to keep the dummy DTA file(s) for the first full build of the entire cache, then delete them. Harmony upgrades, here we come!


Hmm, weird. Well, if other people have that problem, that's one other fix. Maybe I had left it on my USB drive by mistake before deleting it and thought /that/ was the fix, haha.

If it can get loaded at the same time as the rest of the tracks, well... that'll speed this whole thing up. ;)

Edit: I would also like to thank everyone for not noticing my typo of 'foreword' on the Instructions page.


I had the same problem and the upgrade would only work when I had the dummy DTA on the HD when the entire cache was built otherwise it would say that all the songs only have 1 vocal part.

You still have to delete the Dummy DTA to be able to play the songs at all though.
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farottone  





Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

espher wrote:

I've tried using other mid files for things and usually the lead vocal is the only reliable thing. Keys and/or backup vocals seem to be a crap shoot tbh. If there are any songs where I find I have trouble picking a note out of the mix or something I'll definitely give it another pass, mind you.


I've charted 200 songs for vocals and most of them have harmonies. I have to say I don't remember ever having serious problems with either official tablatures (on the contrary, they are incredibly spot on) or MIDI files. Granted, most of the time MIDI files use bending on the notes to change pitch instead of transcribing a single note for every syllable, but still they are pretty accurate. And if they're not 100% accurate you still need only to adjust what's not perfect.

Obviously I'm not implying you should work as I do, even more so if you're very good at transcribing notes by ear. I'm just saying that maybe the material you've found was extraordinarily crappy and not really an example of how transcriptions are done.
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espher  





Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 1777
Location: Fredericton, NB, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

farottone wrote:
Obviously I'm not implying you should work as I do, even more so if you're very good at transcribing notes by ear. I'm just saying that maybe the material you've found was extraordinarily crappy and not really an example of how transcriptions are done.


Could very well be the case. It would be well in line with my historical luck. ;)

I do end up doing most of it by ear, but there's no denying some guidelines would have been helpful for some stuff I've looked at.
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DorkmasterFlek  





Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

espher wrote:
I tried to go 'direct' with the build by moving the dummy .dta right onto the hard drive, and only doing one cache build, but that did not work. It builds the entire package at once, but for a reason I cannot figure out (maybe date order?), it opts to load the RB1 tracks with only one vocal part.

It could be the date order, but I suspect it may just be a simple fact of loading the RB1-related files before the RB3-related files. In any case, it appears you need to do a "primed build" of the cache using just the dummy files first.

I'm not sure why removing the dummy DTA files for the main full build causes it to lose the primed data. I suspect that it checks to see if the file it loaded before is still there, and when it doesn't find it, it removes the song data associated with it. The game may do this during the initial scan before it loads any new files into the cache. You can see this with the two separate progress bars you see; the first is "finding" data and checking if it already cached it, and the second is "loading" anything new. When you remove the dummy file after that point, it still has the original files containing the song info for the cache, so it keeps the data for those songs around after scanning. Slightly more annoying, but still workable.

My personal strategy is to keep the upgrade files and dummy DTAs on a separate USB stick, along with the primed cache built out of only those files. If I need to rebuild my main cache for any reason, I can copy the one from the USB stick as a starting point, and keep it up to date as we add new files to the project. I'm very excited about this. I find I personally miss vocal harmonies in the older songs way more than keyboard parts, and these upgrades are actually quite simple to do compared to making a full custom chart.
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wlinn751 wrote:
Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly.
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