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HMX CEO: "Radical departure" for RB in the future?
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DorkmasterFlek  





Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: HMX CEO: "Radical departure" for RB in the future? Reply with quote

RockBandAide has highlights from the first part of a great in-depth interview over at Giant Bomb with CEO Alex Rigopulos, CTO Eran Egozy, and Senior VP of Product Development Greg LoPiccolo. Really detailed stuff if you're interested in HMX as a company and how things run now vs. when Viacom owned them. It's also interesting because the interviewer himself is former-Harmonix employee Alex Navarro. Really good read, and I can't wait for part two.

The specific interesting bits about RB are this so-called "radical departure" they refer to. Personally, I'd hazard a guess that they will move more towards an actual music creation direction rather than just playback. I'd love to see something in this regard, though I have no idea how you'd even approach it. More detailed than GH Tunes, obviously. What does everybody think? Let the speculation begin!
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hiddenzombie013  





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I fully trust Harmonix to handle this franchise in the best way possible. I love how they still have crazy ideas for the franchise, so I can't wait to see what they have in store. I'm hoping that, whatever it is, all of our DLC carries over again, but I'm wondering how radical of a departure they can make while still retaining the classic gameplay.

Hell, I was just hoping for Rock Band 4: Final Encore or something, that perfected on what RB3 started, but I'm just happy that they're still doing another game period. After all, Rock Band DLC is still profitable for them (another thing I'm very happy about), so hopefully this next project will be a success as well.

So essentially, nothing but good can come from this.
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NoThru22  





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will probably be Rock Band: Kinect but hopefully it will still work with legacy instruments.
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thecaptainof  





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: HMX CEO: "Radical departure" for RB in the fut Reply with quote

DorkmasterFlek wrote:
Personally, I'd hazard a guess that they will move more towards an actual music creation direction rather than just playback. I'd love to see something in this regard, though I have no idea how you'd even approach it. More detailed than GH Tunes, obviously.


Nnnnnno. If GHTunes has taught us anything, it's that this is a bad idea. If we really need more atrocious-sounding songs with absurd Skittles-waterfall charts, let's leave it to RBN where at least there's some professionalism about it.

Bitching aside: if they're talking about big things to come, I sadly suspect you're right, user-created content is about the only way they can go from where they are now. (I know RBN probably also qualifies as user-generated content, but at least there's a fairly robust peer review system to keep it from becoming GHTunes.) And if they decide to somehow force Kinect/Move into the game, they can fuck right off.
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DorkmasterFlek  





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiddenzombie013 wrote:
Personally, I fully trust Harmonix to handle this franchise in the best way possible. I love how they still have crazy ideas for the franchise, so I can't wait to see what they have in store. I'm hoping that, whatever it is, all of our DLC carries over again, but I'm wondering how radical of a departure they can make while still retaining the classic gameplay.

Well I'm almost 100% positive that all the legacy content and modes will still work, whatever they decide to do, similar to how RB3 still handles legacy DLC just fine even though it supports keyboard and vocal harmonies now. I would be seriously surprised if they didn't keep the legacy support intact and still called it Rock Band.

I'm wondering if future RB games will possibly be download-only? Pinball FX 2 does this really well on XBLA. The core platform is a free download, and you buy tables from within. There is the character creation part and all the art and assets that go along with that, so maybe some kind of base fee will be required, but this seems like a better approach than trying to cherry pick 80 songs everyone can enjoy for the disc. It should also avoid the disc export shenanigans we've seen with certain tracks not exporting.
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Last edited by DorkmasterFlek on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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machetemonkey  





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: HMX CEO: "Radical departure" for RB in the fut Reply with quote

thecaptainof wrote:
DorkmasterFlek wrote:
Personally, I'd hazard a guess that they will move more towards an actual music creation direction rather than just playback. I'd love to see something in this regard, though I have no idea how you'd even approach it. More detailed than GH Tunes, obviously.


Nnnnnno. If GHTunes has taught us anything, it's that this is a bad idea. If we really need more atrocious-sounding songs with absurd Skittles-waterfall charts, let's leave it to RBN where at least there's some professionalism about it.

Bitching aside: if they're talking about big things to come, I sadly suspect you're right, user-created content is about the only way they can go from where they are now. (I know RBN probably also qualifies as user-generated content, but at least there's a fairly robust peer review system to keep it from becoming GHTunes.) And if they decide to somehow force Kinect/Move into the game, they can fuck right off.


I highly doubt they'll move towards GHTunes in any way. When WT came out, people asked HMX if they ever thought of implementing a similar music-creation program. HMX said something along the lines of "yes, we've always considered it, but we want to take the time to make it something great that would work as a tool for serious, professional musicians." and I'm pretty sure that ended up being the RBN. So I feel like moving towards a GH-Tunes style music studio would be seen as a regression for them.
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TheGlow  





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kind of miss getting a disc with random songs I dont know.
You often get a gem on there you would never have encountered on your own. With so much dlc, I'm not just going to buy stuff on a whim to see if I like it.
Like The Killing Moon. Me and a coworker, whenever something happens and we get screwed sing out "Fate, up against your will!"
He doesnt even like rockband but knows it from hearing others play it, and I know it from playing.
I dont think neither of us would know what it is if it wasnt an on disc track.
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nextlevel88  





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if there's a genre that needs a shot to the arm, this is it. No better way to do that than with a "radical departure". I'm confident.
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blingdomepiece  





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGlow wrote:
I kind of miss getting a disc with random songs I dont know.


I agree. There have certainly been some on-disc turkeys too but on the balance my musical tastes are better off from the on-disc selection.
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JOE2210  





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I highly doubt we'll get RB:Tunes, that's what RBN is for if you want to take it seriously.

On the Kinect note, I can see it happening and not being too intrusive, like Forza 4. I played that earlier, and even though they do drop the hint about playing with Kinect, it's not pushy at all, and even playing with it is pretty fun. I don't think HMX would make their entire console shtick Kinect based, they have one game for that and they would be pretty much aimed at a pretty small market.

I'm going to say that this radical departure is going to be a total visual overhaul, as in making the characters look more human and have a lot more continuity in the staging and movement on stage, maybe with some motion capture chucked in there as well. If there's one thing I LOVED about GH, it was the special mo-cap sequences, Beat It and Bohemian Rhapsody spring to mind.
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machetemonkey  





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JOE2210 wrote:
I highly doubt we'll get RB:Tunes, that's what RBN is for if you want to take it seriously.

On the Kinect note, I can see it happening and not being too intrusive, like Forza 4. I played that earlier, and even though they do drop the hint about playing with Kinect, it's not pushy at all, and even playing with it is pretty fun. I don't think HMX would make their entire console shtick Kinect based, they have one game for that and they would be pretty much aimed at a pretty small market.

I'm going to say that this radical departure is going to be a total visual overhaul, as in making the characters look more human and have a lot more continuity in the staging and movement on stage, maybe with some motion capture chucked in there as well. If there's one thing I LOVED about GH, it was the special mo-cap sequences, Beat It and Bohemian Rhapsody spring to mind.


I don't think a visual overhaul is considered a radical departure. In fact, I'd say it's expected more than anything else. They said it's something nobody would expect.

I could see them potentially turning RB into an "all-pro" game, using the keyboard/drum peripherals they already have, and developing a rocksmith-like cable to plug in any guitar/bass (or just get a license for the technology). I think with the genre no longer being hugely popular, there's a good chance that it will end up being more focused, and aimed squarely at completely satisfying a niche market, as opposed to targeting a wider audience that will likely no longer be purchasing music games much.


That's one theory of mine, at least. I could also see them including more story/RPG style elements like a lot of people on forums have suggested. I'd be wary of this, because it could realistically make the game much better, or much worse. Really could go either way.


Personally, I'd love to see an all-pro shift, though. Five-lane and standard/tradition modes are great. I love them to death. But sooner or later you just can't really innovate meaningfully on a system like that, and you'll have to move on or risk stagnating completely. If they reach that point, I think a full-band pro game (the ability to use pro keys, pro drums, and any guitar and bass) focused squarely at people who want to learn to play music, and learn to play music in a group, could actually end up pretty decent.
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noble  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoThru22 wrote:
It will probably be Rock Band: Kinect but hopefully it will still work with legacy instruments.


This is exactly how I read it as well.

More so when he said we're looking at the way people play games now.

IE Kinect/Move.

So I'd be fairly shocked if it isn't a kinect game.

I don't know how it would work, but I HOPE that when this radical departure does happen they let us RBN authors know early (make us sign an NDA or something), so we can get the features in for future songs.

So we don't have a RBN 1.0 pro drum fiasco again.
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GuitarHailz  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGlow wrote:
I kind of miss getting a disc with random songs I dont know.
You often get a gem on there you would never have encountered on your own. With so much dlc, I'm not just going to buy stuff on a whim to see if I like it.
Like The Killing Moon. Me and a coworker, whenever something happens and we get screwed sing out "Fate, up against your will!"
He doesnt even like rockband but knows it from hearing others play it, and I know it from playing.
I dont think neither of us would know what it is if it wasnt an on disc track.

Yeah mostly this. More of the same model wouldn't be a bad idea if they waited long enough and the genre can get some footing.

I suspect they will try to mimic Rocksmith, since that game has gotten enough positive reviews and praise that it would be unwise to ignore the things its doing right. I think "radical departure" means they will focus more on real instrument learning over fake instruments, and if this is the case I think it's a step in the wrong direction (if they're going to do this, they should call it something different and make it a separate project, but leave my regular RB alone... sadly just sticking a better pro mode on yet another game does not qualify as "radical departure" IMO).

I'd be surprised if its a Kinect game, since they're already making tons of cash with Dance Central... I can't imagine what they would do with Rock Band Kinect that isn't already done essentially in Dance Central anyways. Some Kinect support could be fun but I doubt the novelty of headbanging with your avatar would be worth the price of a Kinect for most of you guys. :p Ideas?

I guess I'm losing my fan card, but I don't feel as confident as the rest of you. Not due to a lack of faith in HMX but rather just lack of faith that the genre can even be revived so soon. I'd love to see a RB4 as much as the next guy, but I doubt it wont be for another 2 or 3 years even.

Edit: Also, on the subject of GHTunes .... I could see it happening, with a much better music creation of course, but it always makes me sad to see people hating on GHTunes so much. Sure, it wasn't great, but it was good for what it was: A free custom-song maker as a small (and optional) side feature in a music game. No more, no less. If HMX did this it would be much better, I'm sure, but I doubt they will - surely they realize that people play games to escape and turn off their brains and just have fun. I know even with my creative side I didn't feel like toiling over a tune on the xbox, though admittedly it was fun to see what others could do with it...
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Bront  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DorkmasterFlek wrote:
Well I'm almost 100% positive that all the legacy content and modes will still work, whatever they decide to do, similar to how RB3 still handles legacy DLC just fine even though it supports keyboard and vocal harmonies now. I would be seriously surprised if they didn't keep the legacy support intact and still called in Rock Band.

This I agree with completely. There is still a large user base in legacy instruments, and it's not like it's hard to keep supporting that segment, since most of the code is already done for you though the RB3 engine.

Rock Band: Kinect is a bad move, if only because you limit your market, as a large portion of your current market doesn't need Kinect to play, partially because over a third of it is not on the 360. Kinect support as an option? Maybe, but definitely not required. Besides, how did the Kinect-like drums in Power Gig do?

If they can refine the engine a bit more, they might be able to provide something better than AIM mode, either with allowing for any 4 instrument combination to play with a 5th unscored, or finding a workaround to allowing all 5 instruments to play (particularly since the 360 is the only console where the 5th controller is an actual issue)
DorkmasterFlek wrote:
I'm wondering if future RB games will possibly be download-only? Pinball FX 2 does this really well on XBLA. The core platform is a free download, and you buy tables from within. There is the character creation part and all the art and assets that go along with that, so maybe some kind of base fee will be required, but this seems like a better approach than trying to cherry pick 80 songs everyone can enjoy for the disc. It should also avoid the disc export shenanigans we've seen with certain tracks not exporting.

Download only might not be a bad idea, but they do need to include some on-disc content, either directly on disc, or offer a pack of songs to download when you get the game (I don't see them offering a selection of anything from the catalog for free, there has to be some level of fixed content so everyone has it). It's one thing to have a downloadable game that only exists on downloadable content, but a disc game needs some on-disc content.

Wii-U support is likely, which may or may not mean no more Wii support, depending on how they see the monetary model. Most of the Wii's issues appear to be fixed on the Wii-U outside of possibly online support model (I'm pretty sure they've mentioned the Wii-U will accept patches), which means the Wii will be the only "special" version needed. However, it also depends on when this is aiming to be released vs when the Wii-U comes out.

It's going to be more than just animations. Maybe it's an improvement in Pro mode AKA Rocksmith. Maybe it's an improvement in how user generated content can be used. Maybe it's a more interesting story/tour mode, or other optional features to let people immerse themselves in the fake rock band experience. Maybe it's a more dynamic goals mode that expands with new DLC. Maybe it's a more well rounded online play system.

Or maybe, just maybe, HMX has another cool surprise up their sleeves. Harmonies were expected in RB3, Keys was cool but not a huge surprise (as it made the most sense for a new instrument), and even Pro Drums shouldn't have been a big shocker given the cymbal support of the RB2 drums, but Pro Guitar and Bass was a huge surprise and innovation that I don't think most people saw coming (even if they wanted something like it).

I do think RB4 is likely the last version we'll see on this generation of console. Build something great and end on a high note, and then simply continue to enjoy the revenue flow from DLC sales.
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FyreWulff  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a personal theory that they're holding off on Rock Band 4 until the Wii U solidifies. No point on pushing another title out on Wii when the Wii U will be compatible with the instruments anyway, so might as well benefit from being able to patch and so on.

Question is if they would actually do anything with the tablet in Rock Band.
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