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DorkmasterFlek 
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON
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 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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I'm slightly confused. If this generates a MOGG file longer than 10 minutes, why do you have to edit the MOGG in Audacity manually? I thought the whole purpose of this was to avoid having to build the audio file manually, which is the tricky part.
My understanding is that you can set up your song in Magma, but just have the MIDI file be under 10 minutes. This gets you an encoded MOGG file (plus, it should get you the other files in the RBA, songs.dat, album art, etc.) and you can then extend the MIDI chart to the full length and use all those files to build a CON manually instead of via Magma again. Is this correct?
EDIT: Okay, after re-reading qwertymodo and LyokoFreaks's posts, I think I understand what this actually does. It doesn't actually build the multitrack OGG itself, it just gets oggenc to add the proper header information that RB needs. So you still need to build the OGG yourself with the correct track positions, but the hard part is getting the correct header in place when Magma won't touch your audio files because it's too long. That's the showstopper. Am I reading this right?
If I am reading this right, I think you can still get the other important files you need from Magma. If you use a shortened version of the MIDI and the audio as well, you can get Magma to compile it. My plan of attack is to do this, then look at the songs.dat and MOGG file to see where it places the tracks. Then I can put in the full length version of the audio in an otherwise identically laid out OGG file and use this method to get the header in place.
Once you have the completed MOGG file, you can adjust the song length in songs.dat (which you extracted along with the other files from the initial build with Magma of the shortened version) and add the rest of the song to the MIDI file. Then you just build the CON manually using all the files instead of Magma (RB3Maker can easily do all of this). Does this sound like a decent plan? I'm at work, so I won't be able to try this until tonight. 
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| wlinn751 wrote: | | Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly. |
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LyokoFreaks
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 691
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| DorkmasterFlek wrote: | EDIT: Okay, after re-reading qwertymodo and LyokoFreaks's posts, I think I understand what this actually does. It doesn't actually build the multitrack OGG itself, it just gets oggenc to add the proper header information that RB needs. So you still need to build the OGG yourself with the correct track positions, but the hard part is getting the correct header in place when Magma won't touch your audio files because it's too long. That's the showstopper. Am I reading this right?
If I am reading this right, I think you can still get the other important files you need from Magma. If you use a shortened version of the MIDI and the audio as well, you can get Magma to compile it. My plan of attack is to do this, then look at the songs.dat and MOGG file to see where it places the tracks. Then I can put in the full length version of the audio in an otherwise identically laid out OGG file and use this method to get the header in place.
Once you have the completed MOGG file, you can adjust the song length in songs.dat (which you extracted along with the other files from the initial build with Magma of the shortened version) and add the rest of the song to the MIDI file. Then you just build the CON manually using all the files instead of Magma (RB3Maker can easily do all of this). Does this sound like a decent plan? I'm at work, so I won't be able to try this until tonight. |
This is absolutely right. If you do what you just stated here, you should have no issues at all and the result should be perfect.  |
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DorkmasterFlek
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| LyokoFreaks wrote: | | This is absolutely right. If you do what you just stated here, you should have no issues at all and the result should be perfect. |
Sweet! Thanks for the explanations. Glad to know I'm understanding this correctly.
My personal approach for these longer songs is going to be to put a single note in each lane of each instrument in the chart, just to get it to compile initially. Then go through all the steps above to get the full length MOGG file with proper header, extend the length of the MIDI file to the proper length, and build the entire thing and test it in-game with an almost empty chart to make sure it actually plays all the way through properly. Once you get that far, just make the chart in REAPER as normal and keep rebuilding the CON manually as you go along to test.
Testing is going to be slightly more annoying though, because you have to keep popping the USB stick out to rebuild. Magma also has handy validation to make sure everything in your MIDI file is in the correct spot, so you at least know that your chart won't crash the game and there shouldn't be any accidentally overlapping gems causing them to disappear or something silly. I'm going to miss that, but it's worth it to be able to make my 12 minute song without being forced to split it in two. 
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| wlinn751 wrote: | | Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly. |
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LyokoFreaks
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 691
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| DorkmasterFlek wrote: | | Testing is going to be slightly more annoying though, because you have to keep popping the USB stick out to rebuild. Magma also has handy validation to make sure everything in your MIDI file is in the correct spot, so you at least know that your chart won't crash the game and there shouldn't be any accidentally overlapping gems causing them to disappear or something silly. I'm going to miss that, but it's worth it to be able to make my 12 minute song without being forced to split it in two. |
Well I'll be authoring everything as one song and then splitting it into chunks so I can test and record. |
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psymatiq
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 642
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:34 am Post subject: |
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okay just so im 100% clear how to proced:
first i make a song in magma with none charted midi file but with ..lets say octavarium as sound file(doesnt the event lanes [end] on this need to be atleast the length of the sounds file?) with the new ogg encoder.
i split the rba and now got the mogg file
i manually edit the dta file with those numbers(ived never touched those parameters in the dta before but i kinda understand it i guess)
Make midi file in reaper which is living up to the rock band rules
put it together as a con with le fluffie
What im not 100% on his how to make the venue track in the midi file if i dint have magma to make it for me.
I prop missed something <.<
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DorkmasterFlek
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| psymatiq wrote: | okay just so im 100% clear how to proced:
first i make a song in magma with none charted midi file but with ..lets say octavarium as sound file(doesnt the event lanes [end] on this need to be atleast the length of the sounds file?) with the new ogg encoder.
i split the rba and now got the mogg file
i manually edit the dta file with those numbers(ived never touched those parameters in the dta before but i kinda understand it i guess)
Make midi file in reaper which is living up to the rock band rules
put it together as a con with le fluffie
What im not 100% on his how to make the venue track in the midi file if i dint have magma to make it for me.
I prop missed something <.< |
I would recommend putting a single note in each track for each instrument in your song and building that in Magma first. That way, the resulting shortened audio file will have all the same tracks that your final version will have and you can match it up against the full length one you'll create.
Also, I highly recommend RB3Maker instead of LeFluffie: http://rockband.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34542
You can build a CON file from the initial shortened RBA, and it will extract all the files you need in the same folder as part of the process. Then, you update the MIDI file and songs.dat as needed for the full length song (and replace the MOGG of course) and switch RB3Maker to "Full Song" mode in the options menu. It will build a new CON using all those files it extracted from the RBA. This way, you can get the milo_xbox file and even album art.
_________________
| wlinn751 wrote: | | Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly. |
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psymatiq
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 642
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:31 am Post subject: |
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holy mother shit.. it worked first try(even tho the image cover is borked) in first try...
said before but what i did
made a rba with a guitar only song
took the milo,dta and changed the diffrent parameters and changed the song length(60*24 minuttes)
took the venue track from the rbas dta file and added it into the 24 min long mid and copy pasted the events so they filled the whole thing.
seriously tho... this would allso open up for none accepted rules of the rb engine right ? like a bpm over 300,4 note chords,only expert charted,beatline isent at the right area etc etc ? And in such case would it make the game crash ?
gonna test it later today but i just made octavarium pass and played it thru with no problems what so eve...heck i can even pause now without it going out of synch like the only other 10+ song did before this.
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LyokoFreaks
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 691
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| psymatiq wrote: | | seriously tho... this would allso open up for none accepted rules of the rb engine right ? like a bpm over 300,4 note chords,only expert charted,beatline isent at the right area etc etc ? And in such case would it make the game crash ? |
As far as I'm aware, those aren't limitations of the system, so you should be able to break the Magma authoring rules without any consequences. |
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psymatiq
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 642
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| LyokoFreaks wrote: | | psymatiq wrote: | | seriously tho... this would allso open up for none accepted rules of the rb engine right ? like a bpm over 300,4 note chords,only expert charted,beatline isent at the right area etc etc ? And in such case would it make the game crash ? |
As far as I'm aware, those aren't limitations of the system, so you should be able to break the Magma authoring rules without any consequences. |
awsome... just a side question.. how do i add practice sections ? ived tried to add text events in the event track but song crashes cause of that. Everything else works perfectly. Even tho the venue track isent optimal.
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LyokoFreaks
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 691
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| psymatiq wrote: | | awsome... just a side question.. how do i add practice sections ? ived tried to add text events in the event track but song crashes cause of that. Everything else works perfectly. Even tho the venue track isent optimal. |
Are you adding the sections on the list of practice sections? |
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DorkmasterFlek
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| LyokoFreaks wrote: | | psymatiq wrote: | | awsome... just a side question.. how do i add practice sections ? ived tried to add text events in the event track but song crashes cause of that. Everything else works perfectly. Even tho the venue track isent optimal. |
Are you adding the sections on the list of practice sections? |
It has to be something from that list, for sure. For the VENUE track, one thing you could do is split the chart into several smaller charts under 10 minutes and run them through Magma one at a time and export the autogenerated venue track for each one. Then just paste them all together in REAPER. That's what I'm doing.
Also, use RB3Maker. Seriously. It extracts everything, including the album art, from the RBA file and keeps it entirely intact, colours and all. As far as I'm aware, this is the only way to get fully correct album art without the colours getting all messed up like the existing technique of using GH2 Image Converter does.
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| wlinn751 wrote: | | Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly. |
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psymatiq
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 642
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| DorkmasterFlek wrote: | | LyokoFreaks wrote: | | psymatiq wrote: | | awsome... just a side question.. how do i add practice sections ? ived tried to add text events in the event track but song crashes cause of that. Everything else works perfectly. Even tho the venue track isent optimal. |
Are you adding the sections on the list of practice sections? |
It has to be something from that list, for sure. For the VENUE track, one thing you could do is split the chart into several smaller charts under 10 minutes and run them through Magma one at a time and export the autogenerated venue track for each one. Then just paste them all together in REAPER. That's what I'm doing.
Also, use RB3Maker. Seriously. It extracts everything, including the album art, from the RBA file and keeps it entirely intact, colours and all. As far as I'm aware, this is the only way to get fully correct album art without the colours getting all messed up like the existing technique of using GH2 Image Converter does. |
Thanks both i didnt know that pratice section had to be from that list. I will test em out cause a 24 min song really need practice sections :P.
And yes i use rb3maker and ived done around 170 customs so far both with the old method and the rb3maker way. But rb3maker didnt add the cover art the first time, i had to inject the keep file into the con file with le fluffie afterwards.
But it all works now.
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DorkmasterFlek
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| psymatiq wrote: | Thanks both i didnt know that pratice section had to be from that list. I will test em out cause a 24 min song really need practice sections :P.
And yes i use rb3maker and ived done around 170 customs so far both with the old method and the rb3maker way. But rb3maker didnt add the cover art the first time, i had to inject the keep file into the con file with le fluffie afterwards.
But it all works now. |
Ah, I only just discovered RB3Maker so I didn't know it used to not be able to do album art. It definitely extracts everything now. It is the absolute perfect way to build customs IMO.
_________________
| wlinn751 wrote: | | Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly. |
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DorkmasterFlek
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:08 am Post subject: |
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Ha ha, it totally worked! This is fantastic. 12 minute songs, here I come!
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| wlinn751 wrote: | | Everybody likes Boston on some level. They're like a soul detector. Most people don't know this, but vampire hunters carry a Talkboy containing a snippet of More Than A Feeling. Anyone who doesn't smile when they hear it gets staked on the spot. It works flawlessly. |
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psymatiq
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 642
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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ived tested some more with the limits of the engine.
aka ived made a song that is 60 minuttes long...aka see the link cause yt rejected the file cause it was to long.
http://da.twitch.tv/psymatiq1/b/303438756
Works
song at 60 minuttes
bmp under 40 bmp and over 300
only expert charted
beatline not added
quad notes
glitchy
taking a 70mb ogg(60 min song) thru rb3maker made it crash twice before i got the mogg out of the rba file.
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