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machetemonkey
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 3043
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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 Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| FL4RE wrote: | | God I hate Harmonix' new way of charting everything. Seriously Child of Time's solo could have been the funnest thing ever and they hyper-accurately charted it. I know that they do that a lot nowadays but seriously why? Its not fun. |
Have you been keeping up with dlc AT ALL? The "hyper accurate charting" has been very rare since at least the second Ozzy Osbourne pack. Most of their solo charting has recently been very similar to how they did it back around RB1-RB2. And Child of Time's solo, while falling into some of those old HMX hyper-charting traps, is still nowhere near as bad as some stuff like the first Ozzy pack or some of the solos in Rust in Peace. If you look at HMX authoring in the past few months, charting like Child In Time's solo is the exception, not the rule.
It actually really, REALLY bugs me that everyone used to complain about how HMX hyper-charted guitar solos, and once they (for the most part) stopped, nobody ever thought to compliment them.
Edit: After seeing the solo again, I wouldn't even call it hypercharted all that much. Yeah, the random pickup notes are really annoying, but beyond that there are few (if any) awkward strums mixed in with hopos, there are few un-natural feeling hopo patterns (although they are there on occasion) and any weird, non-standard rhythms in the solo fretting sound intentional. Remember what hypercharting is: Hypercharting is, essentially, authoring every subtle difference in a part EXACTLY, instead of authoring to intent. As I said, other than the pickup notes (which are excessive and a bit stupid), everything here seems authored to intent. It just so happened to come out a little bit awkward.
Basically, if anyone thinks Child In Time is a return to HMX's old solo-authoring ways, I'd say I'd much prefer this charting over http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ldEWC12usA.
And that's coming from someone who loves playing Five Magics. |
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CyberRaiza
Joined: 02 Oct 2008
Posts: 1194
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psymatiq
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 642
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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bought the song today and tbh.. that solo isent bad at all. I loved it. What i can say...what a fucking awsome song.
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GuitarHailz 
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 4910
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mystakin wrote: | Not straight 16th notes? Must be overcharted.
Playing through it, the only issue I had with the solo is how endless the hopos are in spots that I felt should've have strums in them at SOME point. Also it's called Guitar Solo 1 despite there being no Guitar Solo 2.
Also I love the condescending tone to people who actually like the chart. "Oh you like the chart? Probably just because you like the song, that's how it USUALLY goes." |
I'm not an author, and I don't claim to know anything about charting, so I'm not here to complain about charting choices. But just as it's not fair to condescend to people who like the chart for whatever reason, you should also not be condescending to people who don't like the chart, for whatever reason (and honestly, you are one to talk about talking down to people due to their opinion on Rock Band, HMX, and so on, so don't even go there  )
There is a grain of truth to the "I will tell myself I like this chart because I like the song" theory. I know I've lied to myself about songs I love that I would enjoy playing them in Rock Band, when in reality there was that nagging doubt that maybe I'd rather just blast this one on my iPod and skip playing it in Rock Band. I fail to see how that is a wild assumption when I know many of us are guilty of it. That's not to say that everyone who likes this chart belongs to that group, obviously not (and actually, nobody here was insinuating that all of people who like the chart must be in denial, you came up with that one on your own  ), but you and I both know that those people exist. It's just human nature to stick by the things you love throughout, carefully overlooking a potential botched chart or other mistake or problem (and there we have the birth of console wars and really any type of fanboyism).
Overcharting or whatever you want to call it, that song doesn't look fun to play, and I probably won't buy it because of that. I don't blame HMX, the band, England, The Queen, God, or anybody. I just don't want to play it (which is probably more a testament to my skills as a guitarist, not a problem with the chart or song choice). Seems like a reasonable enough reaction, yes? That doesn't change the song's epic-ness or worth for another person. But, y'know, live and let live, and all that.
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CharginMahLazer
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 91
Location: WI
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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On another note...
Has anyone been able to make sense of the harmonies in the last chorus of TftM? It looks like just an enormous clusterfuck and I can't make any sense of who's supposed to be singing what.
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| nextlevel88 wrote: | | So Lady Gaga is just like porn: Nobody buys it, yet it sells like crazy. |
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Mystakin
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 1152
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| GuitarHailz wrote: | I'm not an author, and I don't claim to know anything about charting, so I'm not here to complain about charting choices. But just as it's not fair to condescend to people who like the chart for whatever reason, you should also not be condescending to people who don't like the chart, for whatever reason (and honestly, you are one to talk about talking down to people due to their opinion on Rock Band, HMX, and so on, so don't even go there )
There is a grain of truth to the "I will tell myself I like this chart because I like the song" theory. I know I've lied to myself about songs I love that I would enjoy playing them in Rock Band, when in reality there was that nagging doubt that maybe I'd rather just blast this one on my iPod and skip playing it in Rock Band. I fail to see how that is a wild assumption when I know many of us are guilty of it. That's not to say that everyone who likes this chart belongs to that group, obviously not (and actually, nobody here was insinuating that all of people who like the chart must be in denial, you came up with that one on your own ), but you and I both know that those people exist. It's just human nature to stick by the things you love throughout, carefully overlooking a potential botched chart or other mistake or problem (and there we have the birth of console wars and really any type of fanboyism).
Overcharting or whatever you want to call it, that song doesn't look fun to play, and I probably won't buy it because of that. I don't blame HMX, the band, England, The Queen, God, or anybody. I just don't want to play it (which is probably more a testament to my skills as a guitarist, not a problem with the chart or song choice). Seems like a reasonable enough reaction, yes? That doesn't change the song's epic-ness or worth for another person. But, y'know, live and let live, and all that. |
Nothing wrong with a little playful mocking.  I, at least, wasn't implying people were somehow fooling themselves for not liking it. I'm just jumping on the people who want to blame HMX for everything.
Does it really matter if people like the chart or the song, ultimately? If they're happy, they're happy. It's just people fishing for excuses for why others don't agree with them. Seriously, the argument of "I think I know what you like better than you do" is so pompous it's offensive.
I don't have a problem if you don't want to play it. I don't want to play drums to this for much the same reason you don't want to play guitar. But as with every argument we seem to have, you're mistaking my distaste for people who think "HMX fucked it up" with people who "don't like it." That's where my "Not straight 16th notes? Must be overcharted." comment stems from.
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thecaptainof 
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 7571
Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not really seeing the major problem. I can't claim to be an expert but... it sounds like a load of spamming and it's charted accordingly. It's not like 'All Of This', which sounds reasonably simple but is charted as if the guitarist threw his instrument down a flight of stairs mid-solo.
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| yksi-kaksi-kolme wrote: | | Wow Mr. Mad, who fucked your buffalo? |
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GuitarHailz
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 4910
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Mystakin wrote: | | GuitarHailz wrote: | I'm not an author, and I don't claim to know anything about charting, so I'm not here to complain about charting choices. But just as it's not fair to condescend to people who like the chart for whatever reason, you should also not be condescending to people who don't like the chart, for whatever reason (and honestly, you are one to talk about talking down to people due to their opinion on Rock Band, HMX, and so on, so don't even go there )
There is a grain of truth to the "I will tell myself I like this chart because I like the song" theory. I know I've lied to myself about songs I love that I would enjoy playing them in Rock Band, when in reality there was that nagging doubt that maybe I'd rather just blast this one on my iPod and skip playing it in Rock Band. I fail to see how that is a wild assumption when I know many of us are guilty of it. That's not to say that everyone who likes this chart belongs to that group, obviously not (and actually, nobody here was insinuating that all of people who like the chart must be in denial, you came up with that one on your own ), but you and I both know that those people exist. It's just human nature to stick by the things you love throughout, carefully overlooking a potential botched chart or other mistake or problem (and there we have the birth of console wars and really any type of fanboyism).
Overcharting or whatever you want to call it, that song doesn't look fun to play, and I probably won't buy it because of that. I don't blame HMX, the band, England, The Queen, God, or anybody. I just don't want to play it (which is probably more a testament to my skills as a guitarist, not a problem with the chart or song choice). Seems like a reasonable enough reaction, yes? That doesn't change the song's epic-ness or worth for another person. But, y'know, live and let live, and all that. |
Nothing wrong with a little playful mocking. I, at least, wasn't implying people were somehow fooling themselves for not liking it. I'm just jumping on the people who want to blame HMX for everything.
Does it really matter if people like the chart or the song, ultimately? If they're happy, they're happy. It's just people fishing for excuses for why others don't agree with them. Seriously, the argument of "I think I know what you like better than you do" is so pompous it's offensive.
I don't have a problem if you don't want to play it. I don't want to play drums to this for much the same reason you don't want to play guitar. But as with every argument we seem to have, you're mistaking my distaste for people who think "HMX fucked it up" with people who "don't like it." That's where my "Not straight 16th notes? Must be overcharted." comment stems from. |
Heh, it must be because I imagine a little alarm under your desk that buzzes and blinks red every time someone in a DLC thread makes a comment even remotely against HMX. I realize you probably don't care whether or not we like the song or chart, but god help me if I ever blame HMX for the DLC or chart I don't like! (Which I haven't done personally, but every "argument" we have usually starts with you getting upset at people who give HMX criticism, which is also pretty "pompous," if I may, to imply that HMX is above such things). So we're allowed to dislike the chart, but not allowed to dislike HMX for it. It's just kinda funny. I realize I would be the same way about just about anything I love, defending it to the end, but if people are being civil about it I take it as a sign of maturity to accept that criticism and move on.
Also, what I find hilarious is that when GH3 came out people called annoying charts "overcharted" but in this thread and any RB DLC threads with charts widely hated, people call the annoying charts "hyper-accurate." Even the critiques of HMX are dipped in a compliment! ("Well, the chart isn't a whole lot of fun, but at least it's accurate!") Hell, you were the first person to use the word "over-charted" in this thread. 
Anyway. Those harmonies on Fall Out Boy are tempting. 
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Last edited by GuitarHailz on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:18 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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The-B.O.D.
Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 2413
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| thecaptainof wrote: | | I'm not really seeing the major problem. I can't claim to be an expert but... it sounds like a load of spamming and it's charted accordingly. It's not like 'All Of This', which sounds reasonably simple but is charted as if the guitarist threw his instrument down a flight of stairs mid-solo. |
Wait, what's the matter with the solo in All of This?
Regardless, most of the reason I think the solo is getting so much negative feedback is because quick strummed notes right after hopos are just balls to hit on RB3, not to mention inconsistencies in hooks makes the timing even more asinine as the timing window shrinks, and the one point where is goes    a bunch? Just fuck that. |
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Mystakin
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 1152
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| GuitarHailz wrote: | Heh, it must be because I imagine a little alarm under your desk that buzzes and blinks red every time someone in a DLC thread makes a comment even remotely against HMX. I realize you probably don't care whether or not we like the song or chart, but god help me if I ever blame HMX for the DLC or chart I don't like! (Which I haven't done personally, but every "argument" we have usually starts with you getting upset at people who give HMX criticism, which is also pretty "pompous," if I may, to imply that HMX is above such things). So we're allowed to dislike the chart, but not allowed to dislike HMX for it. It's just kinda funny. I realize I would be the same way about just about anything I love, defending it to the end, but if people are being civil about it I take it as a sign of maturity to accept that criticism and move on.
Also, what I find hilarious is that when GH3 came out people called annoying charts "overcharted" but in this thread and any RB DLC threads with charts widely hated, people call the annoying charts "hyper-accurate." Even the critiques of HMX are dipped in a compliment! ("Well, the chart isn't a whole lot of fun, but at least it's accurate!") Hell, you were the first person to use the word "over-charted" in this thread.
Anyway. Those harmonies on Fall Out Boy are tempting. |
If you're seriously going to just argue with some caricature of who I actually am, there's no point in continuing. I never said HMX was infallible, I never even implied it. In this case, and in many others, I think their authoring choices are justifiable. Do I really have to list through all the charts I DO blame HMX for to somehow make you believe that I'm not defending them on principle, or is the world just that black and white to you?
If you honestly want to compare my smart-ass one liner to straight up stating that "most people who like charts like this are fooling themselves" then I'm not sure we have any common ground to stand on, here.
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TensionSpree
Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 566
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | just balls to hit on RB3 |
Any evidence RB3 makes that harder? 8/10 times I FC Alive's solo which is infested with things like that. Can't say I can do the same if I pop in RB2.
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"But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good. Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood."
"Belief in reputation is, perhaps, the most worthless of all beliefs."
Recent FCs: Man In The Box (Guitar)
Will not remove this in my signature until "Unholy Confessions" by Avenged Sevenfold is added to Rock Band DLC.
Started: July 31st, 2010
Still don't wanna remove it! Happy it's here, though! |
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FL4RE
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 4178
Location: Liverpool yano
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Mystakin wrote: | Not straight 16th notes? Must be overcharted.
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I didn't say overcharted, don't be a twat.
& monkey:
I thought the first ozzy pack was fine really (outside of let me hear you scream anyway). I know not every single DLC to come out has had hyper-accurate charting present, but it has featured a lot more than it used to imo.
I mean for example:
No sleep til Brooklyn
Child of Time
Photograph
Nothing but a good time (what the FUCK is that at the end of the solo?)
Dragonforce (which yeah could have been worse but still)
All 3 Dio tracks
Beast & the Harlot
And there is much more...I'm not naming every single DLC that has featured it since I have better things to do.
My point is that is has featured quite a bit for the last what year and a half? I'm not sure why they decided it but it makes stuff a lot more difficult & less fun to play. I mean hell I would have bought Child of time if I still had an xbox/rb3 before seeing the chart. Now I'm not so sure.
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JOE2210
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 2480
Location: In the Gagasphere
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| FL4RE wrote: |
I thought the first ozzy pack was fine really (outside of let me hear you scream anyway). |
Soul Sucker was a fucking abomination.
Just sayin'
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Yusuke 
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 1663
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:19 am Post subject: |
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I can't be the only one who hears piano in Sugar We're Going Down.
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TensionSpree
Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 566
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:26 am Post subject: |
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Why are people complaining about accurate charts? Even from fans of both games, RB has always been said to be the more accurate one. GH wasn't, but sometimes charted sections in a more "for fun" manner (except stuff like Painkiller and Indestructible where they feared hammer-ons).
You can't want an accurate chart then suddenly complain it isn't to your liking in terms of fun.
@Yusuke: There might not be much piano, though. Dawn Patrol has a few guitar notes if I recall, but it was just that, only a few, hardly audible ones, so HMX didn't see it worthwhile to chart.
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"But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good. Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood."
"Belief in reputation is, perhaps, the most worthless of all beliefs."
Recent FCs: Man In The Box (Guitar)
Will not remove this in my signature until "Unholy Confessions" by Avenged Sevenfold is added to Rock Band DLC.
Started: July 31st, 2010
Still don't wanna remove it! Happy it's here, though! |
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