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The Top 100 Hardest Pro Keys FCs
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inv4der  





Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 9656
Location: Meridian, ID

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This song is not the first case of rhythm guitar being the keys part, it's just the first time that said rhythm part ended up being truly difficult. (The couple of others never got about a couple dots iirc.) For what I remember from when the first one was released, the RBN people said that it would only be allowed if there wasn't an actual traditional keys part (synth, horns, etc) to chart instead.

Also, I went and made sure it was rhythm guitar by playing with everything else turned down, and sure enough it is very clearly a guitar and not keys.

I'd be interested to see if anyone can actually do the strumming bits at all, since they're at least steady, unlike the ones in the Andromeda stuff.

EDIT: Here's a chart image so people who can math can take a crack at NPS and such like. http://i.imgur.com/c0tghR2.png The "strumming" is 12.3nps.
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Mystakin  





Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 1152
Location: State College, PA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brandon007 wrote:
Might as well just start charting all guitar charts to keys if this can be excepted. I don't understand RBN anymore, the quality control is either out of whack or non-existent.


There are plenty of creators who have spoken out against breaking the format by putting rhythm guitar on keys and other trends. Harmonix has said that these issues are not fail-worthy, so, all the outspoken can do is refuse to pass a track if it comes up.

For the record, I probably would have failed this track for being unplayable on Pro Keys had I seen it, which is a separate issue from charting guitar to keys.
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Hobo111  





Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 3414

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might be able to hit the longer extended parts, (if the song ever came to PS3, which looks unlikely) but when it starts moving all round like crazy, that's pretty much impossible.
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TheLonging  





Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 4191

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

inv4der wrote:
EDIT: Here's a chart image so people who can math can take a crack at NPS and such like. http://i.imgur.com/c0tghR2.png The "strumming" is 12.3nps.


Such bullshit woooooooooooow
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NavyCherub wrote:
AshleyWilis wrote:
hi for me Its something different...
It seems like Full sound full combo...
I mean It show passion and determination for my guitar
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TheLonging  





Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 4191

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not the best at pro keys, but I have some opinions about about placing (from the songs I do own):

Do You Feel is harder than Flight of the Bumblebee.

PON DE FIOR is harder than Toccata and Fugue.

Roundabout is harder than Expert Mode (I can at least pass Roundabout).

Sweet Home Alabama (Live) is harder than Elysian (though I don't know how hard it is compared to Scenes, as I haven't played it yet). I'd also say Higher Ground is harder than Elysian, at least that song has easy sections.

I tried playing This is the Album, and I'm not sure which is harder; that or Paradise. Paradise is longer, but TitAYBWF has those fucking ridiculous chords.

I think Jungle Boogie is harder than Superstition, just because of the note rolls in the verses. It certainly doesn't help if your calibration setup sucks.

I'm probably the only one who thinks so, but Antibodies is much much easier than the list indicates. Certainly easier than Fly Like an Eagle and Sir Duke, to say the least. I think I Don't Wanna be a Soldier Mama is harder because of the inconsistency of it, while Antibodies can be, for the most part, learned.

I also think The Epic is easier than Don't Stop Me Now at least. Like you said, the fast riff is doable and repeatable.

Are we also gonna rank the Impossible List on how impossible they are?

Also you should specify which The Duel you're talking about. Is the one in the Impossible List Rusty's, or Van's?

EDIT: For those misc songs you have outside of the list; Bicycle Race and Somebody to Love could be bottom 100? Head Like a Hole could also be around that too. Also, I don't see Discord, which I think is easily top 10.
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NavyCherub wrote:
AshleyWilis wrote:
hi for me Its something different...
It seems like Full sound full combo...
I mean It show passion and determination for my guitar
Smoke weed erryday.
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Hobo111  





Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 3414

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheLonging wrote:
Do You Feel is harder than Flight of the Bumblebee.
I've brought Bumblebee up multiple times with Maze and sycocoaster, but they seem to think it's fine where it is.

Quote:
PON DE FIOR is harder than Toccata and Fugue.
I'm not sure about this one. Toccata and Fugue is incredibly long with the hard part near the end and a bunch of hard parts before it. I'm pretty sure the outro of PON DE FIOR isn't impossible

Quote:
Roundabout is harder than Expert Mode
Yes

Quote:
Sweet Home Alabama (Live) is harder than Elysian (though I don't know how hard it is compared to Scenes, as I haven't played it yet). I'd also say Higher Ground is harder than Elysian, at least that song has easy sections.
I can't comment on Elysian.

Quote:

I tried playing This is the Album, and I'm not sure which is harder; that or Paradise. Paradise is longer, but TitAYBWF has those fucking ridiculous chords.
Maze is absolutely fucking insane and thinks that Album should move down to like 72, but I think it's fine where it is.

Quote:
I think Jungle Boogie is harder than Superstition, just because of the note rolls in the verses. It certainly doesn't help if your calibration setup sucks.
ABSOLUTELY NOT

Quote:

I'm probably the only one who thinks so, but Antibodies is much much easier than the list indicates. Certainly easier than Fly Like an Eagle and Sir Duke, to say the least. I think I Don't Wanna be a Soldier Mama is harder because of the inconsistency of it, while Antibodies can be, for the most part, learned.
I suck hard at Antibodies, so I'm not going to comment. It probably is easier than FLaE though.

Quote:
I also think The Epic is easier than Don't Stop Me Now at least. Like you said, the fast riff is doable and repeatable.
Yes.

Quote:
Are we also gonna rank the Impossible List on how impossible they are?
I don't know, the point is that they're impossible, so we can't really figure out which ones are harder since they're all way beyond us (except for The Cascade Effect, which I could see Maze FCing)

Quote:

Also you should specify which The Duel you're talking about. Is the one in the Impossible List Rusty's, or Van's?
The Duel on the impossible list is Rusty Cool.

Quote:

EDIT: For those misc songs you have outside of the list; Bicycle Race and Somebody to Love could be bottom 100? Head Like a Hole could also be around that too. Also, I don't see Discord, which I think is easily top 10.
Bicycle Race and Head Like a Hole are nowhere near top 100. Somebody to Love I think would barely miss the cutoff. (I'm not sure it's harder than Death on Two Legs) We haven't figured out a placement for Discord.
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TheLonging  





Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 4191

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hobo111 wrote:
Quote:
PON DE FIOR is harder than Toccata and Fugue.
I'm not sure about this one. Toccata and Fugue is incredibly long with the hard part near the end and a bunch of hard parts before it. I'm pretty sure the outro of PON DE FIOR isn't impossible


I can see it going either way for someone. Me personally, I believe PON is harder, but I can absolutely see why most people would find Toccata and Fugue harder.

Hobo111 wrote:
Quote:
I think Jungle Boogie is harder than Superstition, just because of the note rolls in the verses. It certainly doesn't help if your calibration setup sucks.
ABSOLUTELY NOT


I'd like to hear your opinion (even if I can see why).

Hobo111 wrote:
Quote:
Also you should specify which The Duel you're talking about. Is the one in the Impossible List Rusty's, or Van's?
The Duel on the impossible list is Rusty Cool.


Could the one by Van be possible? You'd need really great reflexes and great rebound on your keyboard.

Hobo111 wrote:
Quote:

EDIT: For those misc songs you have outside of the list; Bicycle Race and Somebody to Love could be bottom 100? Head Like a Hole could also be around that too. Also, I don't see Discord, which I think is easily top 10.
Bicycle Race and Head Like a Hole are nowhere near top 100. Somebody to Love I think would barely miss the cutoff. (I'm not sure it's harder than Death on Two Legs) We haven't figured out a placement for Discord.


Yeah I can agree with Bicycle Race and HLaH not being on the list, I just saw them on the doc and thought if it'd be on the list at all. I don't think Somebody to Love would be bottom 100 maybe, but just under Death on Two Legs or so.
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I wanna thank you for letting me be myself.

NavyCherub wrote:
AshleyWilis wrote:
hi for me Its something different...
It seems like Full sound full combo...
I mean It show passion and determination for my guitar
Smoke weed erryday.
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Hobo111  





Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 3414

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheLonging wrote:
I'd like to hear your opinion (even if I can see why).
I've FCed Jungle Boogie twice now and after you get better at the rolled chords, it isn't that bad. Superstition is very long, has multiple quick and difficult parts, and the outro is a joke with the crazy fast lanes, while there's nothing remotely chokeable in Jungle Boogie.

I'd like to see somebody take a crack at Van's The Duel before we make any decisions on it. It's at #3 on the docs currently.
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inv4der  





Joined: 16 Sep 2007
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Location: Meridian, ID

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If no one else is up for it I can give spamming keys a shot and see where I get in the fast part of The Duel (Van Frisca). Shame that a lot of the keys players seem to be PS3 since they can't access many of these songs.

I would note that my best keys FC is Surrender Live so my ability will likely not be indicative of a top level key spammer.
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emsegs  





Joined: 17 Jan 2012
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

inv4der wrote:
If no one else is up for it I can give spamming keys a shot and see where I get in the fast part of The Duel (Van Frisca). Shame that a lot of the keys players seem to be PS3 since they can't access many of these songs.

I would note that my best keys FC is Surrender Live so my ability will likely not be indicative of a top level key spammer.

Someone needs to get mazegeek an xbox.
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mazegeek999PSN  





Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hobo111 wrote:
TheLonging wrote:
Do You Feel is harder than Flight of the Bumblebee.
I've brought Bumblebee up multiple times with Maze and sycocoaster, but they seem to think it's fine where it is.

They are both extremely hard songs. The thing with Bumblebee is those octave jumps when doing the scales. You can use your left hand for the bottom notes or play with your left hand and use the right hand for the top notes, but the timing window is so strict, I know I can only keep 4x a few times. I haven't worked on it much (I'm sure I could do better if I tried), but those scales are so unrealistic for the game that it's extremely hard to FC.
Do You Feel Like We Do I've actually tech FCed. If that outro wasn't there it would probably move down below Roundabout so it makes it chokeable. At least for me though, there are only a few "luck" parts in the solo. After that it's not choking in the guitar solo and, hopefully, FCing the outro. It is extremely tough though. You can explain to me more what you think if you want of course, that's just what I think though.

Hobo111 wrote:
TheLonging wrote:
PON DE FIOR is harder than Toccata and Fugue.
I'm not sure about this one. Toccata and Fugue is incredibly long with the hard part near the end and a bunch of hard parts before it. I'm pretty sure the outro of PON DE FIOR isn't impossible

Toccata and Fugue actually isn't as hard as I thought it was since I have the weird ending figured out pretty well (not too hard for me anymore). It's a tough song but I'll have to agree with TL on that one. They could just switch spots.

Hobo111 wrote:
TheLonging wrote:
Roundabout is harder than Expert Mode
Yes

Yes.

Hobo111 wrote:
TheLonging wrote:
Sweet Home Alabama (Live) is harder than Elysian (though I don't know how hard it is compared to Scenes, as I haven't played it yet). I'd also say Higher Ground is harder than Elysian, at least that song has easy sections.
I can't comment on Elysian.

Same here, don't know.

Hobo111 wrote:
TheLonging wrote:
I tried playing This is the Album, and I'm not sure which is harder; that or Paradise. Paradise is longer, but TitAYBWF has those fucking ridiculous chords.
Maze is absolutely fucking insane and thinks that Album should move down to like 72, but I think it's fine where it is.

My opinion with it being #72 was if the list was completely my opinion, since I don't find the song too hard anymore. I think the general consensus is that it's pretty hard, which makes sense. Also TL, could you show me which chords you're talking about in Album? Some of the wide 3-note chords I just play with two hands since I use them for the downward scales after. Paradise doesn't have as big of chords, but it's around three times as long of a song and the chord jumps are fast.

Hobo111 wrote:
TheLonging wrote:
I think Jungle Boogie is harder than Superstition, just because of the note rolls in the verses. It certainly doesn't help if your calibration setup sucks.
ABSOLUTELY NOT

Pretty much everyone find JB (including myself) to be unnecessarily hard, but I think Superstition is just a little easier. The outro isn't as bad as you would think.

Hobo111 wrote:
TheLonging wrote:
I'm probably the only one who thinks so, but Antibodies is much much easier than the list indicates. Certainly easier than Fly Like an Eagle and Sir Duke, to say the least. I think I Don't Wanna be a Soldier Mama is harder because of the inconsistency of it, while Antibodies can be, for the most part, learned.
I suck hard at Antibodies, so I'm not going to comment. It probably is easier than FLaE though.

Not to brag but I can FC Antibodies 25% or so of the time; I don't see why people find it too hard haha. I can't comment on Soldier but all I know is that (in my opinion) Antibodies is way easier. Most people would rate it a little harder though so I'm not sure where to place it.

Hobo111 wrote:
TheLonging wrote:
I also think The Epic is easier than Don't Stop Me Now at least. Like you said, the fast riff is doable and repeatable.
Yes.

Yeah I would think so, not by much though. It's that intro of DSMN that makes it tough to FC.

Hobo111 wrote:
TheLonging wrote:
Are we also gonna rank the Impossible List on how impossible they are?
I don't know, the point is that they're impossible, so we can't really figure out which ones are harder since they're all way beyond us (except for The Cascade Effect, which I could see Maze FCing)

Yeah, the point of the impossible list is because the songs will never be FCed, so there isn't much of a point in ranking them. I will never FC The Cascade Effect because of Guitar Solo 3B (I haven't FCed that section yet) although I think people with more stamina (even just drummers with some piano abilities) could FC the section. I don't think it should be on the impossible list, probably #3 or so. I've FCed every other section, pretty sure Guitar Solo 3B can be FCed, so it can be tech FCed, so I would say it's FCable. Probably #3 or so.

Hobo111 wrote:
TheLonging wrote:
Also you should specify which The Duel you're talking about. Is the one in the Impossible List Rusty's, or Van's?
The Duel on the impossible list is Rusty Cool.


Hobo111 wrote:
TheLonging wrote:
EDIT: For those misc songs you have outside of the list; Bicycle Race and Somebody to Love could be bottom 100? Head Like a Hole could also be around that too. Also, I don't see Discord, which I think is easily top 10.
Bicycle Race and Head Like a Hole are nowhere near top 100. Somebody to Love I think would barely miss the cutoff. (I'm not sure it's harder than Death on Two Legs) We haven't figured out a placement for Discord.

StL isn't top 100 (maybe on DLC list, not on full list though). I think Discord should be at #3; I think those spams in between the chords are learnable but the full song is extremely hard.

Also, although we can rate RBN and stuff do you think only the DLC list should be completely rated? To be honest I don't see the full list (with RBN) ever being done because of all the obscure songs without videos that are hard and simply because there are tons of RBN.

-----------------

I'll make adjustments once we figure out where all of these songs should go. For now though I'll just leave the list the way it is.

Also inv4der, good luck but spamming doesn't work on RB3, let alone pro keys.
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TheLonging  





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elysian doesn't have a PS3 release yet I believe. Here's a video if you wanna judge that way.

I do believe Paradise is harder, but only because it's longer and faster. And I'm referring to the wide chords in general. As the song goes on it gets faster which makes those chords much more of a pain and (for me at the moment anyway) unhittable with one hand, let alone two at times. Chords like this and the five second strech here , and other similar sections are just hurtful :P If it was longer, I'd be tempted to say that it's harder than Paradise.

Discord is definitely a top 5. I agree that it'd be nice at #3.


And I think we should include RBN in it. SH has some fanatics; we'll be able to jump on those obscure songs
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NavyCherub wrote:
AshleyWilis wrote:
hi for me Its something different...
It seems like Full sound full combo...
I mean It show passion and determination for my guitar
Smoke weed erryday.
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blingdomepiece  





Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 4358
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

inv4der wrote:
If no one else is up for it I can give spamming keys a shot and see where I get in the fast part of The Duel (Van Frisca). Shame that a lot of the keys players seem to be PS3 since they can't access many of these songs.


Given the quality of the charts that might be more of a feature than a bug.
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inv4der  





Joined: 16 Sep 2007
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Location: Meridian, ID

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blingdomepiece wrote:
inv4der wrote:
If no one else is up for it I can give spamming keys a shot and see where I get in the fast part of The Duel (Van Frisca). Shame that a lot of the keys players seem to be PS3 since they can't access many of these songs.


Given the quality of the charts that might be more of a feature than a bug.


It's a feature that decent keys players are mostly on PS3 based on the perceived lack of quality of charts? Even when the charts are totally fine relative to what is being charted?

Also I'm terrible and I can't even tell if I can hit the bursts in The Duel (Van Frisca)'s hard part. I'm thinking it's probably impossible list simply because even if you were better than me (not exactly hard) and could hit 12.3 nps bursts, there's just so many quick changes as well as the zigzag bit right after the bursts.
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mazegeek999PSN  





Joined: 23 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

inv4der wrote:
blingdomepiece wrote:
inv4der wrote:
If no one else is up for it I can give spamming keys a shot and see where I get in the fast part of The Duel (Van Frisca). Shame that a lot of the keys players seem to be PS3 since they can't access many of these songs.


Given the quality of the charts that might be more of a feature than a bug.


It's a feature that decent keys players are mostly on PS3 based on the perceived lack of quality of charts? Even when the charts are totally fine relative to what is being charted?

Also I'm terrible and I can't even tell if I can hit the bursts in The Duel (Van Frisca)'s hard part. I'm thinking it's probably impossible list simply because even if you were better than me (not exactly hard) and could hit 12.3 nps bursts, there's just so many quick changes as well as the zigzag bit right after the bursts.

I'm sure it's very hard, but there are also songs above it that are (in my opinion) harder like Veil Pt. 1 which is on the "possible" list. I don't think any of the sections in The Duel couldn't be FCed although many of the sections would be very hard to hit.

Also TL, ok, I hope there are those fanatics out there haha but with time we might be able to do the list.
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