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BathTub
Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 1259
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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But I don't want them, I'm not a huge Ozzy fan. If there had been an extra reason to buy 5 songs I don't want then I would have considered the pack, but I just don't think the value is there. |
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ShiftBreaker
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 4708
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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I still need to get the first pack. I think this may have been a better idea for the aforementioned Gaga pack, which is smaller, or maybe for artists who haven't had a pack in the first place but are also big. If the first pack sold well, and this one doesn't, it proves that it's a better idea. Or maybe a group that haven't had many/any packs, or packs for a long time. (Metallica, Queens of the Stone Age, The Rolling Stones in particular.) _________________
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PlexShaw
Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 332 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Mystakin wrote: | PlexShaw wrote: | I would have got Bark at the Moon and Mr. Crowley but as it stands, I'm not buying anything because even though the latter is available as a single I will not purchase it on principle. |
If anything, purchasing Mr. Crowley would better show HMX that you don't like the pack idea. There's no principle to not purchase Mr. Crowley by. The ultimate form of "I don't like this pack exclusive" would be to purchase all 6 Ozzy singles. ( which would still be cheaper, $12 vs. $13.5 ) That way HMX knows you like Ozzy, but don't like the pack exclusive idea. |
I get what you're saying but I think I'd just prefer not to give them any money for anything related to this pack. I'm not sure that me purchasing Mr. Crowley would have any impact other than me only getting half the songs I wanted. Just so everyone is clear, I listened to all of them and those are the only two I want even though they're the most well known due to their appearance in other music games.
TBH, I'm not a massive Ozzy fan anyway. And I have nothing against people wanting to buy the 8-pack either. |
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2n2
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 345
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:05 am Post subject: |
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sluggo wrote: | Some food for thought:
Harmonix is currently in a precarious position with the Rock Band franchise. The rhythm game genre has fallen way off and they don't have the weight of MTV behind them any more. Rock Band 3 was not a massive seller and Harmonix does not have another Rock Band game coming out this year. Convincing big artists to sign on for DLC is only going to get harder for Harmonix, unless they can show that DLC still sells really well. Money talks, etc.
While I respect the choice of people to not buy the entire pack because they're not interested in all 8 songs, I don't think that ignoring singles you want "on principle" will have the effect you hope it will. Low sales will only make it harder for Harmonix to acquire DLC and potentially force them to make awful concessions down the road. Buying singles says that you support Harmonix and DLC, but not the pack format.
This really isn't a issue for me, as I was buying the 8-pack from the start. Hell, I might buy a Squier just for Bark at the Moon. But IMO, Harmonix has shown that they're not out to nickel and dime Rock Band players with crappy, bloated releases and deserve our support. if you're interested in singles from this pack, I think you do far more good by supporting Harmonix by buying a few tunes than ignoring it altogether. |
Well said. There's surely way more going on behind the scenes licensing-wise here than Harmonix can talk about. |
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Mystakin
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 1152 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:27 am Post subject: |
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PlexShaw wrote: | I get what you're saying but I think I'd just prefer not to give them any money for anything related to this pack. I'm not sure that me purchasing Mr. Crowley would have any impact other than me only getting half the songs I wanted. Just so everyone is clear, I listened to all of them and those are the only two I want even though they're the most well known due to their appearance in other music games.
TBH, I'm not a massive Ozzy fan anyway. And I have nothing against people wanting to buy the 8-pack either. |
If you want a song, buy it... if you don't want a song then don't buy it. The fact that Mr. Crowley is ALSO part of a pack that contains two pack-exclusive songs doesn't change anything about the Mr. Crowley sold as a single. It's not like buying the singles tells them pack exclusives is a good idea... in fact, it tells them the opposite. _________________
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yakityyakblah
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 3985
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 2:29 am Post subject: |
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2n2 wrote: | sluggo wrote: | Some food for thought:
Harmonix is currently in a precarious position with the Rock Band franchise. The rhythm game genre has fallen way off and they don't have the weight of MTV behind them any more. Rock Band 3 was not a massive seller and Harmonix does not have another Rock Band game coming out this year. Convincing big artists to sign on for DLC is only going to get harder for Harmonix, unless they can show that DLC still sells really well. Money talks, etc.
While I respect the choice of people to not buy the entire pack because they're not interested in all 8 songs, I don't think that ignoring singles you want "on principle" will have the effect you hope it will. Low sales will only make it harder for Harmonix to acquire DLC and potentially force them to make awful concessions down the road. Buying singles says that you support Harmonix and DLC, but not the pack format.
This really isn't a issue for me, as I was buying the 8-pack from the start. Hell, I might buy a Squier just for Bark at the Moon. But IMO, Harmonix has shown that they're not out to nickel and dime Rock Band players with crappy, bloated releases and deserve our support. if you're interested in singles from this pack, I think you do far more good by supporting Harmonix by buying a few tunes than ignoring it altogether. |
Well said. There's surely way more going on behind the scenes licensing-wise here than Harmonix can talk about. |
And again I'm left with no ability to say: "I don't really like this, but I guess if there's no other choice I guess it's ok, especially in this case where I like everything anyway. But in the future if you plan to do this with an artist I only like a single song from I'm not going to buy it, and if I don't buy it I'd like you to understand that I like said artist but only that one song. Also if it's a situation where the only way to make it available is through this structure I'm ok with it as long as you only ask me to do this for popular bands I'm likely to find worth getting the whole pack. If you're ever in talks to release Led Zeppelin I don't care how many songs I have to buy to get Stairway just do it". I just have buy, don't buy. |
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Bront
Joined: 09 Oct 2010 Posts: 929
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sluggo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 850
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 4:43 am Post subject: |
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To be honest, I was surprised they offered any singles at all. I expected a Diary 3-pack, a Blizzard 3-pack, and the complete 8-pack.
To me, the 8-pack for only 1080 points and the alternative option of 6 available singles was way better than what I was expecting. _________________
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youhas
Joined: 21 Jul 2006 Posts: 3015 Location: Santa Clara, CA
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 4:55 am Post subject: |
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yakityyakblah wrote: | And again I'm left with no ability to say: "I don't really like this, but I guess if there's no other choice I guess it's ok, especially in this case where I like everything anyway. But in the future if you plan to do this with an artist I only like a single song from I'm not going to buy it, and if I don't buy it I'd like you to understand that I like said artist but only that one song. Also if it's a situation where the only way to make it available is through this structure I'm ok with it as long as you only ask me to do this for popular bands I'm likely to find worth getting the whole pack. If you're ever in talks to release Led Zeppelin I don't care how many songs I have to buy to get Stairway just do it". I just have buy, don't buy. |
The world is a complex and dynamic place. Your favorite awesome-sauce band employs the most onerous "convenience fee"-happy ticket agency going. This one cool product you can't live without is exclusively distributed by a company you consider evil incarnate. The only good burrito place in town is owned by a guy who uses his profits to go on baby seal curb-stomping expeditions. And so on.
Ultimately, at the end of the day, one principle or the other is more important to you. Either you suck it up and deny yourself Ozzy goodness or succumb and tacitly approve of the pricing model. I'm sorry you can't have it both ways; I'd sympathize harder, but it's kind of a commonplace dilemma in the modern world.
blingdomepiece wrote: | Anyway, to your point, people don't have to vote with their wallets this time or never. They can buy the Ozzy pack if they really like Ozzy, and if HMX pulls this in the future with some artist they are more lukewarm about, at that point they can vote with their wallet. |
Absolutely; I wholeheartedly agree. (And hope I didn't accidentally imply otherwise earlier.) People can and should absolutely decide on such matters on an artist-by-artist (and pack-specifics-by-pack-specifics) sort of basis if other weirdly-bundled DLC options are offered in the future.
sluggo wrote: | While I respect the choice of people to not buy the entire pack because they're not interested in all 8 songs, I don't think that ignoring singles you want "on principle" will have the effect you hope it will. Low sales will only make it harder for Harmonix to acquire DLC and potentially force them to make awful concessions down the road. Buying singles says that you support Harmonix and DLC, but not the pack format. |
[nods] That seems like a reasonable assessment to me. If you were a vigorously pro-DLC (and/or pro-Ozzy) enthusiast but vehemently against the pack exclusivity tracks, buying many/all the singles but not the pack itself is probably the most split-the-difference middle-ground position one could take. _________________
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PlexShaw
Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 332 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Mystakin wrote: | PlexShaw wrote: | I get what you're saying but I think I'd just prefer not to give them any money for anything related to this pack. I'm not sure that me purchasing Mr. Crowley would have any impact other than me only getting half the songs I wanted. Just so everyone is clear, I listened to all of them and those are the only two I want even though they're the most well known due to their appearance in other music games.
TBH, I'm not a massive Ozzy fan anyway. And I have nothing against people wanting to buy the 8-pack either. |
If you want a song, buy it... if you don't want a song then don't buy it. The fact that Mr. Crowley is ALSO part of a pack that contains two pack-exclusive songs doesn't change anything about the Mr. Crowley sold as a single. It's not like buying the singles tells them pack exclusives is a good idea... in fact, it tells them the opposite. |
As I said, your point is sound but it doesn't change the fact that the only way I can get Bark at the Moon (a song I've been wanting ever since I got Rock Band 3 years ago) is by purchasing the 8-pack.
And by "them", I'm referring to those on the Ozzy side of the table that are - let's face it - the most likely culprits for this current situation. At the end of the day, it's not the biggest deal in the world and whether or not I decided to pay 160MSP for Mr. Crowley, I doubt it would make a blind bit of difference. I'm also sure this release will be a big seller regardless and it's obviously a very good pack/deal if you're an Ozzy fan.
TBH, I'm just disappointed that we're even having to have this discussion because for me Rock Band DLC releases have always been about giving the user the choice to decide what songs they want to add to their library. |
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gitarzann
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 544
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
TBH, I'm just disappointed that we're even having to have this discussion because for me Rock Band DLC releases have always been about giving the user the choice to decide what songs they want to add to their library. |
sorry, my iPad cut your name and I am running out the door. I think back in the day when these games were booming, bands were going to them but now HMX has to do the approaching because the genre fell in popularity. That means that the bands are now able to call the shots. "Want my big hit in your game? Okay, but you have to bundle it with this crappy song that I think should have gotten more airplay."
Harmonix is taking a lot of heat for this on their forum but I think it's more of a "you want this artist, here are the terms" and they have to either take it or leave it. The times they are a changin' |
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ManfredvonKarma
Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 3783 Location: Toms River, NJ
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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ShiftBreaker wrote: | I still need to get the first pack. I think this may have been a better idea for the aforementioned Gaga pack, which is smaller, or maybe for artists who haven't had a pack in the first place but are also big. If the first pack sold well, and this one doesn't, it proves that it's a better idea. Or maybe a group that haven't had many/any packs, or packs for a long time. (Metallica, Queens of the Stone Age, The Rolling Stones in particular.) | This I like. If we could start getting some major songs that Harmonix might not have been able to get by pulling this exclusivity stuff, then I'm all for it. However, the choice has to be a bit more manageable. More people would be willing to buy a three pack to get their one favorite song, then would be willing to buy an 8 pack for the same (especially if the other 2 songs are also solid). _________________
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nextlevel88
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 573
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 6:25 am Post subject: |
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I get why people are upset, but I feel the need to add something that will sound insulting but isn't meant to be: We have been spoiled by RB DLC. Yes, it was Harmonix that set the template that we've grown accustomed to, but nonetheless, they've spoiled us.
A few months ago I spent $10 on Assassin's Creed DLC that included an extension of the single-player campaign and an expansion of the multi-player game that I've never touched. I'd have loved it if they'd separated those into two $5 options so I could've only bought what I was going to use, but unfortunately, it just doesn't always work that way.
Often times DLC is released as individual items that are then bundled into packs at a discount (especially in the case of weapons, cars, skins/outfits, etc.). Other times that's simply not an option, especially when referring to missions, levels, campaigns, or maps; all of which I consider to be more comparable to Rock Band DLC.
You can't just download the most popular map in the new Call of Duty Map Pack, even if the other two are duds and no one ever plays them. You're simply stuck buying the bundle. You can't just buy the best missions from the "Undead Nightmare" add-on, or get just the single-player mode for half-price cuz you're not interested in multi-player. Sometimes you're just stuck buying things you don't want in order to get things you do want.
I'm not by any stretch saying this justifies what is going on here. It's acceptable to hold Harmonix to a different standard because they're the ones that set the standard that is now being inexplicably changed. But this sort of thing is far from "unheard of", and in that regard, they should at least get the benefit of the doubt- to a certain extent... _________________
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Hobo111
Joined: 27 Dec 2009 Posts: 3414
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Also, I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned, but this has already happened. *coughabbeyroadcough* |
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RushJunkie3
Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 463 Location: Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Hobo111 wrote: | Also, I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned, but this has already happened. *coughabbeyroadcough* |
That's an album, not a pack, and this is official HMX DLC for one of the main titles. _________________
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