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LucasPWNS8907
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 181
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 Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| IndestructibleSD wrote: | | MasterNobody wrote: | | IndestructibleSD wrote: | | it's sad to see HMX violate "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". |
Thing is it was broke.
Many people were having issues activating at all, due to the auto-sensitivity issues present on 360, and some windows were impossible to hit without pausing and rewinding. If that's not broken I don't know what is...hence why they fixed it.
Not that I don't think they could have probably fixed it by addressing the appearance of windows and the sensitivity problem, but hey, they killed two birds with one stone with this addition...or killed one and seriously maimed the other xP |
I was referencing the RB2 engine as my "if it ain't broke don't fix it" example. Trust me, we all know of the myriad of issues RB3's engine has lol. |
if you're saying the rb2 engine was flawless, you're just as wrong. have you forgotten about early windows, broken (dead) windows, broken early windows, oversqueezing, and the really small windows? i definitely loved the hell out of the rb2 engine but saying "it ain't broke" is just wrong.
as far as button activating goes, it still takes proper timing, granted a lot of songs with point caps are easier for most to grab, but people have different reaction speeds and still need to learn exactly how late they can press the button for the activation to go off. with this button, i'm able to squeeze some things i never thought possible on rb3. i've found hundreds more points in songs i thought were capped. we also have new reverse squeezes that weren't possible before. end squeezing is a lot more fun and manageable now that you don't have to worry about the window being dead, and to me, end squeezing is the real test of skill at the end of the day. |
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LucasPWNS8907
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Icemage wrote: | | IndestructibleSD wrote: | Push button being a good addition is debatable. It took a significant portion of the difficulty of achieving high scores out of the game. Perfect timing was what separated the best from the rest in games prior to RB3. The only thing that RB3 has that even resembles its predecessors in terms of squeezing is the fact that you still need to sing on pitch.
So I guess I fail to see why push button activation is "the greatest thing to ever to happen to Rock Band vocals" considering anyone can get a high score just by pressing a button now. |
Button activation is bad for competitive vocal scoring, but it does make the actual act of singing much more natural and stress-free, particularly on songs where you would otherwise choose to take a breath during an OD window (see: Feeling This).
As for killing OD using failure, as far as I know, it is NOT allowed on ScoreHero. I saw the potential for abuse back when it was first discovered and remarked upon it here:
http://rockband.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32539
JCirri chimed in with this:
| JCirri wrote: | Good point. I think the most logical stance is to require that solo scores submitted to SH are actually obtained in a solo setting.
But realistically, considering that proof isn't even required unless we ask, we won't be deleting every single solo score that doesn't meet that requirement. We will take action in cases where we notice abuse of solo scores under band play (e.g. intentional band-specific paths designed for improved solo scores), or scores that are otherwise impossible to achieve as a true solo score regardless of intention. |
If you're seeing SH leaderboard scores that are clearly impossible, I would definitely report them. |
if killing OD is indeed not allowed we definitely need to get those paths that utilize it OUT of the path thread immediately. |
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singemfrc 
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 4407
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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- Pausing to rewind and pick up a small od window "pause button trick" is allowed.
- Pausing during an overdrive phrase to kill overdrive is, though frowned upon, allowed. (Its not too different from a miss path)
- Pausing repeatedly to gain a little more overdrive is abuse, and though hard to prove, if discovered, scores would be deleted.
- Regarding solo in multiplayer, if no one in the band fails, it's ok to enter youre score. However since OD stops when someone fails, that alters your "solo" score to something not possible during solo play and would make your "solo" score in multiplayer invalid. Scores found which are not possible under solo mode will be deleted, and if a user is found to be doing this intentionally and repeatedly further action could be taken since they are in a way "fake scores".
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Steadysphere
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 2064
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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That's the thing. I never understood the point of pausing to 'kill off' an OD, why not just pick it up anyways? I mean, it doesn't make a difference either way. I assume this is what you mean as a 'miss path'.
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LucasPWNS8907
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Steadysphere wrote: | | That's the thing. I never understood the point of pausing to 'kill off' an OD, why not just pick it up anyways? I mean, it doesn't make a difference either way. I assume this is what you mean as a 'miss path'. |
on a very limited number of songs (mostly on ones OD drains ridiculously slow) killing off an OD is used to reverse squeeze for an activation later in the song |
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Steadysphere
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 2064
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| LucasPWNS8907 wrote: | | Steadysphere wrote: | | That's the thing. I never understood the point of pausing to 'kill off' an OD, why not just pick it up anyways? I mean, it doesn't make a difference either way. I assume this is what you mean as a 'miss path'. |
on a very limited number of songs (mostly on ones OD drains ridiculously slow) killing off an OD is used to reverse squeeze for an activation later in the song |
Oh I never thought of that. Most of the OD kill paths I've seen have been out of OD.
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Iggy-Sparks
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 523
Location: Södertälje, Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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There is only 4 paths that have this thing...
It can happen that people press start in a song and that's before an OD phrase, then this OD phrase is gone.
Then why wouldn't be ok to press start on purpose? It's like not whammying a note or hitting the last OD note late.
Really it's not such a big deal.
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LucasPWNS8907
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Iggy-Sparks wrote: | There is only 4 paths that have this thing...
It can happen that people press start in a song and that's before an OD phrase, then this OD phrase is gone.
Then why wouldn't be ok to press start on purpose? It's like not whammying a note or hitting the last OD note late.
Really it's not such a big deal. |
what bothers me is that it goes against what i thought scorehero was about. but i guess i was wrong. i'll just refrain from using this like i refrained from pause button/guide button activating |
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bclare
Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 6048
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| LucasPWNS8907 wrote: | | what bothers me is that it goes against what i thought scorehero was about. but i guess i was wrong. i'll just refrain from using this like i refrained from pause button/guide button activating |
I thought ScoreHero was about getting good scores. It's not called CooperationHero.
/devilsadvocate
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LucasPWNS8907
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bclare wrote: | | LucasPWNS8907 wrote: | | what bothers me is that it goes against what i thought scorehero was about. but i guess i was wrong. i'll just refrain from using this like i refrained from pause button/guide button activating |
I thought ScoreHero was about getting good scores. It's not called CooperationHero.
/devilsadvocate |
i thought there were standards on scorehero. i thought certain ways of scoring were deemed illegitimate but hell i guess it doesn't matter to anyone anymore. |
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Iggy-Sparks
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 523
Location: Södertälje, Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Yes it is, but this way of getting scores is perfectly legimate, why wouldn't it be? It's like overhitting an overdrive on drums in full band.
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r0bd0g
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 327
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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The part about being allowed to enter solo scores from band play if nobody fails, should only apply to vocals and harmonies. The way that unison bonuses work in band play inherently invalidates the scores from the other instruments, in my opinion.
Also, I've always seen pause killing to be exploiting a glitch as well (a miss path would involve you actually MISSING the phrase -- I don't know of any path that's like this, but if the gain from the pause killing is significant, one might want to take a look back at those RB2 paths), the only difference between this and pause extending is pause killing is much easier to do accidentally. That said I would suffer little moral reservation about exploiting such a glitch. |
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bclare
Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 6048
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| r0bd0g wrote: | | The part about being allowed to enter solo scores from band play if nobody fails, should only apply to vocals and harmonies. The way that unison bonuses work in band play inherently invalidates the scores from the other instruments, in my opinion. |
Wait. You know there are unisons in solo play now, right? I'm confused as to why there would be a problem.
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LucasPWNS8907
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| bclare wrote: | | r0bd0g wrote: | | The part about being allowed to enter solo scores from band play if nobody fails, should only apply to vocals and harmonies. The way that unison bonuses work in band play inherently invalidates the scores from the other instruments, in my opinion. |
Wait. You know there are unisons in solo play now, right? I'm confused as to why there would be a problem. |
i think what he's getting at it people could be "pause OD killing" instrument paths by having someone intentionally mess up so you only get the quarter meter. |
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r0bd0g
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 327
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:07 am Post subject: |
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That's one way, yes.
Another is if you consider how you have to wait for the other 1/4 bar as the other instruments finish up getting their unison phrases (either because their phrases end after yours does or from network lag). If you activated over that, you could end up overfilling by less, resulting in you squeezing in a few k more points. I bet if The End exported from TBRB, a guitarist following my band path would likely get a normally impossible score. |
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