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S12: RB3 Full Band - Fraggle Rawk wins!
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Deschain  
 




Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 2131
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Substitutes: Nope. Cherry-picking of subs aside, no one is hiding what you're getting into if you sign up for this league. Bowlz is on Eastern, blob is Central, and kawigi is on Pacific, and they've been playing successfully for over two years now.

I think we just need to find the sweet spot between committing to an undertaking like full band (and all the scheduling, pathing, and grinding that go with it), and something more accessible that won't require a band to fit in a session in the midst of a death in the family. Something that comes to mind is lengthening the round time while reducing the number of rounds (maybe add in one more song), so there's more time to play for a group while not making the whole thing drag out way too long.
r0bd0g wrote:
I was thinking that now that the game has a 5th instrument, you might be able to get away with using that as the reasoning for having 5-person bands.

...how? In terms of score, there are no 5-person bands, A-I-M on or not.
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Lars Ulrich said, not wrote:
It's only 7 1/2 minutes! F***, we gotta put some more riffs in there.
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internetguy87  
 




Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 3505
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deschain wrote:
Substitutes: Nope. Cherry-picking of subs aside, no one is hiding what you're getting into if you sign up for this league. Bowlz is on Eastern, blob is Central, and kawigi is on Pacific, and they've been playing successfully for over two years now.

I think we just need to find the sweet spot between committing to an undertaking like full band (and all the scheduling, pathing, and grinding that go with it), and something more accessible that won't require a band to fit in a session in the midst of a death in the family. Something that comes to mind is lengthening the round time while reducing the number of rounds (maybe add in one more song), so there's more time to play for a group while not making the whole thing drag out way too long.
r0bd0g wrote:
I was thinking that now that the game has a 5th instrument, you might be able to get away with using that as the reasoning for having 5-person bands.

...how? In terms of score, there are no 5-person bands, A-I-M on or not.


I just suggested something in our commish chat. Not that this is the future of leagues, but it may be an idea we can work with.

When round 1 songs are released, we simply release all 8 songs for the 4 week season. We still require round 1 to be due after 1 week, round 2 after 2, etc. This would allow a band however to get ahead if they foresee a tough week coming up scheduling wise.

Obviously a death in the family is most likely not predictable, and it's pretty tough to find a solution when those emergency issues arrive, but its a start.

Does not address the playoff situation however =-\. Still thinking of ideas for that.
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r0bd0g  
 




Joined: 21 Feb 2010
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the thought is that you could have 1 person to specialize in each instrument. If you want to demonstrate your ability to play multiple instruments, there's OMB and Co-op.
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internetguy87  
 




Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

r0bd0g wrote:
I guess the thought is that you could have 1 person to specialize in each instrument. If you want to demonstrate your ability to play multiple instruments, there's OMB and Co-op.


I guess I don't get how this helps with subs and timing and etc. What happens if one of your bandmates who plays guitar or bass can't make it, but the song has no keys. Your key player can;'t switch instruments, that just defeated your point of specialization.
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Voltgloss  
 




Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 314
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

internetguy87 wrote:
r0bd0g wrote:
I guess the thought is that you could have 1 person to specialize in each instrument. If you want to demonstrate your ability to play multiple instruments, there's OMB and Co-op.


I guess I don't get how this helps with subs and timing and etc. What happens if one of your bandmates who plays guitar or bass can't make it, but the song has no keys. Your key player can;'t switch instruments, that just defeated your point of specialization.


Sure they can. They can play the guitar or bass part on keys.

Yes, this is more feasible for some songs than others... but for a good keys player, it's more feasible for more songs than you might think.
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internetguy87  
 




Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voltgloss wrote:
internetguy87 wrote:
r0bd0g wrote:
I guess the thought is that you could have 1 person to specialize in each instrument. If you want to demonstrate your ability to play multiple instruments, there's OMB and Co-op.


I guess I don't get how this helps with subs and timing and etc. What happens if one of your bandmates who plays guitar or bass can't make it, but the song has no keys. Your key player can;'t switch instruments, that just defeated your point of specialization.


Sure they can. They can play the guitar or bass part on keys.

Yes, this is more feasible for some songs than others... but for a good keys player, it's more feasible for more songs than you might think.


Now can I ask you. How do you know that they played this song on keys? What proof can we provide. Whats to stop them from simply using a guitar controller and saying it was done on keys.

Better yet what if its the vocalist who can't play that week, you aren't submitting a 4-part band score.

My main point is just trying to show this really isin't a feasible idea.
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Voltgloss  
 




Joined: 26 Apr 2008
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

internetguy87 wrote:
Now can I ask you. How do you know that they played this song on keys? What proof can we provide. Whats to stop them from simply using a guitar controller and saying it was done on keys.


A video. When playing a guitar or bass part on keys, hammer-ons don't appear as hammer-ons. They just appear as regular notes. Also, at the results screen, a person using a guitar or bass controller has the option to rate the song using the blue fret - but if they're using keys, instead of the blue fret, it'll be a controller button giving that option.

Alternately, have a five-person-band league only use songs that have keys parts.
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r0bd0g  
 




Joined: 21 Feb 2010
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't saying that those people would -have- to play those instruments, just that by allowing 5-player bands, you could have a person to play each instrument without having to be multi-instrumentalists.

But that's basically just the excuse that I was thinking could be used to effectively allow for an alternate. I'm not going to pretend that I know how to form a well-reasoned argument.
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Deschain  
 




Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 2131
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voltgloss wrote:
A video. When playing a guitar or bass part on keys, hammer-ons don't appear as hammer-ons. They just appear as regular notes. Also, at the results screen, a person using a guitar or bass controller has the option to rate the song using the blue fret - but if they're using keys, instead of the blue fret, it'll be a controller button giving that option.

Very true. However...
internetguy87 wrote:
My main point is just trying to show this really isin't a feasible idea.


Voltgloss wrote:
Alternately, have a five-person-band league only use songs that have keys parts.

You do know All-instruments-Mode is local only and disables vocals, resulting in a G/B/D/K band whose scores won't upload to the leaderboards because AIM disables saving, right? And what would the point be if, as r0bd0g says, a 5th member is really just a slimly disguised alternate?
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Lars Ulrich said, not wrote:
It's only 7 1/2 minutes! F***, we gotta put some more riffs in there.
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Voltgloss  
 




Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 314
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deschain wrote:
You do know All-instruments-Mode is local only and disables vocals, resulting in a G/B/D/K band whose scores won't upload to the leaderboards because AIM disables saving, right? And what would the point be if, as r0bd0g says, a 5th member is really just a slimly disguised alternate?


I wasn't contemplating use of AIM. The idea, as I originally understood it, was to have a band of 5 people, one on each instrument, and for each song 4 of those 5 people play. To try to ameliorate the difficulty of getting 100% of the band together. Yes, it would only be helpful for the guitar/bass/keys players, but that's better than nothing.

In the end, I don't have a dog in the fight, although I am curious how it would be best to incorporate keys in a full-band league.
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BowlZ  
 




Joined: 14 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

have a song like Fly like an Eagle
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r0bd0g  
 




Joined: 21 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, my path for Fly Like an Eagle had an activation that you could only do using whammy that was only available by playing on an actual keyboard.

I don't like how this set-up basically forces the keyboardist to be a multi... So I really do think allowing a 5th member would solve two problems.

Also, don't AIM scores go onto the leaderboards? I've seen scores with all 5 instruments shown. I thought it just disabled online play, so like, if you wanted the optimal line-up for Antibodies, you gotta pay for 3 plane tickets...
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GuitarHailz  
 




Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r0bd0g wrote:
Yeah, my path for Fly Like an Eagle had an activation that you could only do using whammy that was only available by playing on an actual keyboard.

I don't like how this set-up basically forces the keyboardist to be a multi... So I really do think allowing a 5th member would solve two problems.

Also, don't AIM scores go onto the leaderboards? I've seen scores with all 5 instruments shown. I thought it just disabled online play, so like, if you wanted the optimal line-up for Antibodies, you gotta pay for 3 plane tickets...

Vocals isn't scored for AIM, it's just for show. There is never a score with 5 instrument input, which, IMO, is the biggest failure of the game (and I'm certain they wouldn't have done this unless there was some sort of unpreventable reason). I have no idea where you would have seen AIM on the leaderboards...

Also, too bad at people having issues getting together to play... I could write a dramatic post about how we rose from the ashes of tragedy and flew like eagles, (hur hurr) to play together. But let's just go ahead and say that it was a difficult week for everybody :/

Ironic, that y'all were worried about advancing too easily :p
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Kawigi  
 




Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 2876
Location: Redmond, WA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Responding in reverse order...

r0bd0g wrote:
Also, don't AIM scores go onto the leaderboards? I've seen scores with all 5 instruments shown. I thought it just disabled online play, so like, if you wanted the optimal line-up for Antibodies, you gotta pay for 3 plane tickets...


I think we weren't allowing AIM in this league anyways, but it's pretty clear that all-instruments would be the way to go on that song. We didn't even have vocals activate until the taps :-p

r0bd0g wrote:
Yeah, my path for Fly Like an Eagle had an activation that you could only do using whammy that was only available by playing on an actual keyboard.


So, speaking of which, how did people do Fly Like an Eagle, since it was our first song where there was a clear advantage to using keys? We went for keyboard and left out guitar, but what made it interesting was that I did the keys part (most experience with keys-on-keys), blob took my place on vocals, and Xstormer took blob's place on bass. The funny thing is that BowlZ was the only person who couldn't be moved, and he's our best multi-instrumentalist :-)
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BowlZ  
 




Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 1469
Location: Aurora, Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawigi wrote:
The funny thing is that BowlZ was the only person who couldn't be moved, and he's our best multi-instrumentalist :-)


BowlZ is not a good keyboardist by any means - as made evident of him trying to play this song in OMB on a keyboard
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'First Ever' is needlessly redundant and its never acceptable to use more than 3 exclamation points...
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Metal Sucks. Its the same 3 chords and a guy yelling like cookie monster. If I wanted to see a bunch of sweaty dudes scream for an hour I'd watch gay porn.
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