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Rome11
Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 38
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 Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: Playing RB since its debut and have yet to 100% a song. |
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How common is this?
It's frustrating because I can't even play on expert, yet couldn't even nail the easy songs on hard 100% (typically get 97-99% on most of the songs).
I've been wondering if it's my equipment, my calibration and/or just me. I just upgraded to a Roland e-kit, and now it's harder than ever playing Pro drums since I have to get used to the configuration. When I look at charts, I like to associate the colors with my limbs, and now I'm crossing my arms with use of the hi-hat. I was definitely much better on the stock RB1 kit. basically, the charts don't line up to what I'm used to anymore.
Also, it seems like the CY-8 cymbals don't register notes all the time (which I read about when I searched info). Is there anyway to fix this?
Anyway, I'm serious about drumming, and RB is a great game to learn and practice with. I guess I'm just wondering how many of you drum on acoustic sets, how long you all have been drumming for and tips for me on learning and increasing talent (books, lessons, etc)
If you have anything to help me out, that would be great!
Also, what is the metronome set at in RB3 training? |
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Bandaddy
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| You could easily have hardware issues, dropped hits, crosstalk, or other issues with the kit or calibration, because I think you would have gotten a 100% on at least an easy song by now. I had never played any drums ever, am over 50 (can old dogs learn new tricks?), and have gotten many 100% on expert (mostly lower tier songs) and most definitely don't consider myself a very good drummer. BUT....when I had hardware problems, which have been considerable along the way, it will definitely hold you back, and frustrate you when you think you are doing well. |
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Nubnut
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 2078
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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If you're having trouble with pro, start out with it on normal and just get used to the layout of the set.
Chances are, when you were using a stock RB 1 kit it was hardware problems that was holding you back. But now that you have an e-kit I think it's just a matter of getting used to the kit and you'll be progressing in no time.
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Add me if you wanna play RB 3, GH:WoR, GTA IV, Halo Reach, Left 4 Dead etc. etc.
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Bold
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 55
Location: Granite Falls, MN
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| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: Playing RB since its debut and have yet to 100% a song. |
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| Rome11 wrote: | | I've been wondering if it's my equipment, my calibration and/or just me. I just upgraded to a Roland e-kit |
It could be any/all/none of the above. I set up my new Roland e-kit on Monday night, picked up my MIDI Pro Adapter Tuesday night, and fooled around with it on Wednesday night. I immediately noticed that while the Roland was extraordinarily sensitive and picked up even my lightest hit, I was also having difficulty not "breaking combo".
I started to pay close attention to when this happened, so I could isolate the problem. With the RB1 set or the ION set, breaks like this often happened when the drum pads didn't pick up lighter strokes. But the Roland wasn't suffering this problem: I could play VERY quietly and everything still registered.
By paying close attention to when these "mistakes" were penalized by the game, I realized that it was a bass drum issue. (In other words, it usually only happened when I was playing the kick drum; no kick drum generally meant no problems.) By adjusting my playing style, I figured it out: if I played my usual technique of heel-up, I had problems. If I played heel-down, no problems. But heel-up also worked as long as I really "buried the beater" into the head and played very heavy.
The real cause: the bass drum beater was rebounding ever-so-slightly off the rubber kick pad. Because it's so sensitive, it interpreted this as TWO notes, which the game dinged me for. I'll need to go into the drum module's settings and adjust this... once I open up the manual and figure out how.  (Presumably some setting for sensitivity, or "retrigger", etc.)
Long story short: figure out WHY you're making "mistakes": is it truly you hitting the wrong pad, or too early / too late? Is it a calibration issue: how early and how late can you play and still get the note accepted by the game? is it equidistant from the sound/appearance of the note, or do you generally have to play too early / too late? Is it a pad triggering issue: do all hits get picked up by the drum brain? Is there crosstalk--does one note cause multiple colors to light up? |
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Bold
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 55
Location: Granite Falls, MN
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Playing RB since its debut and have yet to 100% a song. |
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| Rome11 wrote: | | tips for me on learning and increasing talent (books, lessons, etc) |
Regarding technique and general drumming skill:
You mentioned in another message some concerns about left hand facility, and bass drum speed. My background is primarily in rudimental drumming and concert/orchestral percussion, so I'm probably not the best resource for advanced bass drum technique. But for fast doubles, you'll want to research "heel toe" technique. The basic idea is that your heel (or even your whole foot) comes down for the first note, and then you use your toes to play the second note. If you search YouTube you'll find a number videos explaining this. Tim Waterson is the master of bass drum speed, but I think his videos may be a bit misleading due to the speed and because they show a lot of bouncing, more than what most people use:
Tim Waterson explains heel-toe
This video a better one to begin with:
Derrick Pope - Heel Toe Method
For general hands technique, try to focus on your wrist and fingers. Particularly the fingers! Your muscle groups get progressively bigger but slower as you move up your body: fingers are very fast and dexterous, wrist is fairly fast, arms slow and stupid, and anything past the shoulders is right out.  Think of it this way: if you had to sign your name using ONLY one muscle group, would you choose fingers, wrist, arm, shoulder, torso, legs, etc.? You'd probably have the greatest control using your fingers.
An ideal drum stroke should begin with the upstroke: the wrist flexes and lifts the stick up, and the fingers "open up" allowing space between the stick and palm. (But keep the stick in constant contact with the fingers!) During the downstroke, the wrist comes down and the fingers squeeze. After the stick contacts the head it bounces back up, and the process starts all over again. If you try to use ONLY the wrist and you keep your fingers pressing the stick tight against your palm, you'll limit your total speed. If you try to use ONLY the fingers... well, that's impossible because the fingers can only squeeze the stick on the downward stroke; you need the wrist to provide the upward momentum.
This is a bit simplified and I've left out a lot of important points. The best thing you can do is take some lessons (even if just a few!) from a local drum teacher. You had mentioned you picked up some books; I'm not familiar with a couple of them, but Stick Control and Ted Reed's Syncopation are considered classics. However, they're ancient and may not have a lot of good explanatory info in them. They'd be more useful if you have an instructor to provide guidance--the books have a lot of great exercises, but they don't tell you HOW to practice them.
If you aren't able to take some lessons, YouTube can help! Drumming is sometimes easier to teach oneself since it's so visual and you can see what you're doing. (At least compared to wind instruments like trumpet or clarinet, where all sorts of horrors can be going on with tongue position, throat tension, or oral cavity shape, and it's impossible to see from the outside. Welcome to my hell.) If you're very observant, you can learn a lot by watching videos and then carefully observing yourself. A good teacher will save you a lot of time and catch a lot that you miss, but YouTube is free.
I just did a YouTube search for snare drum technique, and it was a godawful mess. So much bad technique (pinkies sticking out, crazy stirring motion, etc.). But I found a couple decent introductory videos by Jason Furman:
Basic Drumstick Technique Pt. 1 - Gripping the sticks (At 3:30 he mentions he uses thumb and middle finger for his fulcrum, but I'd recommend you use the thumb and index finger for your fulcrum. It's more common, in large part because it's a stronger, faster technique, at least from a kinesiology standpoint.]
Basic Stick Technique Pt. 2 - First Strokes (Matched Grip)
Basic Technique Pt. 4 - Finger Technique (Matched Grip) (Note that to focus on finger control he has rotated his hands out into a "French grip" with the thumbs on top , but most drummers will use a "German grip" where the back of the hands are flat and parallel to the ground.) |
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MehPlusRawr
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 1389
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Playing RB since its debut and have yet to 100% a song. |
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| Bold wrote: | | Rome11 wrote: | | I've been wondering if it's my equipment, my calibration and/or just me. I just upgraded to a Roland e-kit |
It could be any/all/none of the above. I set up my new Roland e-kit on Monday night, picked up my MIDI Pro Adapter Tuesday night, and fooled around with it on Wednesday night. I immediately noticed that while the Roland was extraordinarily sensitive and picked up even my lightest hit, I was also having difficulty not "breaking combo".
I started to pay close attention to when this happened, so I could isolate the problem. With the RB1 set or the ION set, breaks like this often happened when the drum pads didn't pick up lighter strokes. But the Roland wasn't suffering this problem: I could play VERY quietly and everything still registered.
By paying close attention to when these "mistakes" were penalized by the game, I realized that it was a bass drum issue. (In other words, it usually only happened when I was playing the kick drum; no kick drum generally meant no problems.) By adjusting my playing style, I figured it out: if I played my usual technique of heel-up, I had problems. If I played heel-down, no problems. But heel-up also worked as long as I really "buried the beater" into the head and played very heavy.
The real cause: the bass drum beater was rebounding ever-so-slightly off the rubber kick pad. Because it's so sensitive, it interpreted this as TWO notes, which the game dinged me for. I'll need to go into the drum module's settings and adjust this... once I open up the manual and figure out how. (Presumably some setting for sensitivity, or "retrigger", etc.)
Long story short: figure out WHY you're making "mistakes": is it truly you hitting the wrong pad, or too early / too late? Is it a calibration issue: how early and how late can you play and still get the note accepted by the game? is it equidistant from the sound/appearance of the note, or do you generally have to play too early / too late? Is it a pad triggering issue: do all hits get picked up by the drum brain? Is there crosstalk--does one note cause multiple colors to light up? |
Whoa, this might just be the problem I have. One easy song I recently played, I broke combo 5+ times, and assumed that I had actually missed stuff. It turned out that they were all overhits. I also have an electric kit, the pro box, and play heel up. I'll try playing heel-down, but ugh... unlearning techniques is never a good thing.
Actually, does anyone know if there's a way for me to use my Destroyer for this? I have a roland HD-1 and the PS3 MIDI box.
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i forget what goes here |
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Bold
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 55
Location: Granite Falls, MN
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Playing RB since its debut and have yet to 100% a song. |
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| MehPlusRawr wrote: | | I'll try playing heel-down, but ugh... unlearning techniques is never a good thing. [...] I have a roland HD-1 and the PS3 MIDI box. |
Yeah, don't change your technique just for this! I imagine there's some setting in your Roland drum module that you can adjust to eliminate these overhits. I didn't have time yet this week to look into my own module's settings, but that's something I'll tackle this weekend. |
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Rome11
Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Playing RB since its debut and have yet to 100% a song. |
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| Bold wrote: |
Yeah, don't change your technique just for this! I imagine there's some setting in your Roland drum module that you can adjust to eliminate these overhits. I didn't have time yet this week to look into my own module's settings, but that's something I'll tackle this weekend. |
thanks a ton for your post above, as well as the rest of you! i watched all those videos. i also found freedrumlessons.com and downloaded their iPhone App as well as printed off all their beginning lessons, beats, etc. I'm looking forward to starting from the very beginning.
the thing that frustrates me the most is that I was pretty decent on the RB1 kit, but using a real kit is so much different! However, I know i will enjoy the real thing a lot more down the road.
When you configure your Rolands, since we have the same set, can you post what you changed and how you did it, as well as your calibration settings?
It'd be nice to cross-reference my kit with yours since you're a lot more experienced than me. that way, i can see if it's me or my hardware acting up.
also, do you play everything on expert? I play on hard, so would it be better for me to go down to medium while I get accustomed to the real kit? |
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