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New to drumming, need advice on what to work on
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chaosSyn  





Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quazifuji wrote:

Are you on 360? There's a lot of punk and metal stuff on RBN I can recommend that might help you out, but I don't know how much of it is on Wii or PS3. Quite a few moderate-speed punk beats and tricky metal songs, and a lot of it's only $1. There are also some slower alternating blast beats there, if you want to give those a shot.

Also, I'll point out that RB3 lets you save scores with no fail mode on (it also lets you toggle no fail mode from the pause menu rather than having to back all the way out to extras). I don't know if that interests you, but I find it helps to enjoy songs like Wahnthac or Obfuscation that I enjoy playing but can't pass.


I am actually on the 360, and the more stuff you can suggest that's the cheap the better. I'm about to spend almost all of my spending money on rb3, drum silencers and i'm trying to find a set of rb2 drums. But i have a 1600 point card i can use. Thanks again for everyone's suggestions!

P.S. I updated the list again, here it is, please help me keep it in a good order from easiest to hardest, and maybe help me re-arrange the categories from easiest to hardest?

-Basic kick training:
New Kid in School
Learn to Fly
Mississippi Queen
Maps
We Got the Beat
Drain You


-Basic speed and endurance training:
Alabama Getaway
Alex Chilton
Blitzkrieg Bop
Electric Version
Let There Be Rock
Uncontrollable Urge
Welcome to the Neighborhood
Bad Reputation
Ramblin' Man (not as fast as the ones above but the pattern makes it more difficult)


-Basic natural sticking:
Pretend We're Dead
De-Luxe
The Hand That Feeds
Orange Crush


-Alternating bass and (usually snare) hits:
Rebel Girl
Wave of Mutilation (Hard)
Here It Goes Again
Reptilia (Hard)
Dead on Arrival


-Tempo changes:
Nightmare (intro)
I Get By (middle)
Feel the Pain


-Swing rhythm:
Nine in the Afternoon
Are You Gonna Be My Girl
Spirit in the Sky
Flirtin' With Disaster
Detroit Rock City
Bodhisattva
Rob the Prez-O-Dent


-Double kick independence:
Creep
Dani California
Man in the Box
Nightmare
Tom Sawyer
Give It All (nextneilpeart95)

-Rhythm practice:
Vasoline
A Jagged Gorgeous Winter
Siva


-Off-beat kicks:
Our Truth
Timmy and the Lords of the Underworld
March of the Pigs
Ace of Spades '08


-Three kicks in a row at speed:
We Got The Beat
Paranoid
(Don't Fear) The Reaper
Next to You
Painkiller


-Natural sticking with difficult bass pattern (3x limb independence):
E-Pro
I Get By (intro)
Outside


-Punk/Thrash Beat:
Here We Go Again
Sorrow (Quazifuji)
Hammerhead (Quazifuji)
All I Want (HomelessCarl)
Battery (nextneilpeart95 )


-Hard stuff with multiple categories:
Laid to Rest (Quazifuji)
Caprici di Diablo (Quazifuji)
Sleepwalker (HomelessCarl)
Colony of Birchmen (TheWertle, nextneilpeart95)
Love Spreads (Nubnut)
Constant Motion (Nubnut)
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11yearoldkid  





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to throw another 2 cents in (that's 4 cents so far). If I were you, i would add this to your routine: pass or get a better score on Run to the Hills at least one time every time you play a huge list of songs. That's what I did during RB1 before RB2 came out and I swear that's what helped me most. Hope this helps!
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chaosSyn  





Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

11yearoldkid wrote:
Just wanted to throw another 2 cents in (that's 4 cents so far). If I were you, i would add this to your routine: pass or get a better score on Run to the Hills at least one time every time you play a huge list of songs. That's what I did during RB1 before RB2 came out and I swear that's what helped me most. Hope this helps!


I would LOVE to try to do that but i HATE playing on rb1 and it's not exportable, so until i buy the vault version (i think that's it, the dlc regardless) i can't do that. But i'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the 4 cents lol.
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voidedalive2x  





Joined: 29 May 2008
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Location: jefferson city, MO

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I also suggest Screaming for Vengeance? LOTS of off-beat bass, both on Hard and Expert, and the roll in the middle I think could help with songs that have odd roll patterns (like, 4 reds, 2 yellows, 3 reds, 1 blue, then 2 of each to 1 green, something like that. That's the not the SfV roll, of course, just an example.)

If you want a simpler pattern to work on for off-beat bass, AYDY's intro on Hard is IMO a good starter (to my noob-drummer eyes), and WtD's choruses (or at least the strumming parts on guitar) are a much faster version to practice on. The rolls at the beginning of WtD could also help in that regard.

I'd hazard in saying I Stand Alone for a general category because it does have parts like R O RY, and the short rolls in the bridge would help in doing such rolls.

Just my 2 cents from a mediocre drummer (or above average hard drummer, in any case.)

EDIT: And for punk beats, would This is War work as well? I know you probably don't own it, but for the first part of the song (before the rolls, anyways, which are something else) you're basically doing punk beats the entire time except for the choruses.
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chaosSyn  





Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, i'm probably a noob for asking this question, but can you write out the song titles for the songs you suggested? i'm not to familiar with the dlc to know which songs you're talking about. But once i know i'll add them all to the list.
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Quazifuji  





Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 1344

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chaosSyn wrote:
11yearoldkid wrote:
Just wanted to throw another 2 cents in (that's 4 cents so far). If I were you, i would add this to your routine: pass or get a better score on Run to the Hills at least one time every time you play a huge list of songs. That's what I did during RB1 before RB2 came out and I swear that's what helped me most. Hope this helps!


I would LOVE to try to do that but i HATE playing on rb1 and it's not exportable, so until i buy the vault version (i think that's it, the dlc regardless) i can't do that. But i'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the 4 cents lol.


Run to the Hills (Original Version) is pretty much the same as the RB1 version, so it would work too. It would definitely boost your arm endurance quite a bit. As a non-DLC alternative, maybe Everlong would work. It's less tiring because you get breaks during the choruses, but it's a similar speed and the trickier bass pattern might help with limb independance.

chaosSyn wrote:
Sorry, i'm probably a noob for asking this question, but can you write out the song titles for the songs you suggested? i'm not to familiar with the dlc to know which songs you're talking about. But once i know i'll add them all to the list.


I think AYDY is Are You Dead Yet and WtD is Waking the Demon.

chaosSyn wrote:

I am actually on the 360, and the more stuff you can suggest that's the cheap the better. I'm about to spend almost all of my spending money on rb3, drum silencers and i'm trying to find a set of rb2 drums. But i have a 1600 point card i can use. Thanks again for everyone's suggestions!


Okay then, here are some RBN songs that might help. It's a mix of 80 and 160 point songs. The categories are in no particular order, the songs within each category are organized very loosely by difficulty.

Punk/Thrash Beats without offbeat bass:
Drunken Lullabies
Liverpool Judies
Motorcide (this song is very short and stupid but also hilarious)

Punk/Thrash Beats with Offbeat Bass:
One Step Further
Friday the 13th
The History of Execution
Inheritence

You might be able to find decent songs to practice punk beats by just looking for tier 4+ punk songs and downloading the trial.

Foot Endurance (I don't know if this is an issue for you, but it's definitely something you'll need if you want to play extreme metal songs):
Valkyries
Molten Death (also might help with tempo changes)
He Sleep in a Grove
Battles and Brotherhood
Flag in the Ground
Shallow Waters
Chasing the Light

(When you get RB3, Beast and the Harlot and 25 or 6 to 4 also go in this category)

Multiple (these are all very difficult and might be out of your reach except for maybe Battlesould and Rip'er, but you could check them out if you want):
Lindisfarne - This isn't in the store yet (just passed review, should show up next update), but in the preview video it looks like it's got a "slow" alt blast for a lot of the song, possibly slow enough to be reasonably hittable but still fast enough to serve as real practice. So it might be worth checking out when it shows up.
Battlesoul - Polyrhythms, and a pattern that looks like an alt-blast but is slow enough that it probably isn't one
Rip'er - Foot endurance, relatively slow blast beats (still very difficult), left hand (is there a name for those beats where you have to constantly hit the snare with your left hand like in Wahnthac? Are they all gravity blasts, or is it something different when it's slower?)
Veils - Relatively slow blast beats (also still very difficult), lots of generally tricky bass patterns
Crushed Beyond Dust - Extremely fast and difficult thrash beat, slower blast-like pattern (like Battlesoul)
Inno a Satana - Foot endurance, blasts
Where the Light was Born - Slow-ish blast-like pattern (like Battlesoul), faster (but still not insanely fast) blasts, foot endurance and speed

In general, just looking up videos of RBN metal songs on youtube and downloading any that you think you could try (you want it to be hard enough to really push your skills, but easy enough that you can actually try to play it and aren't just flailing at the kit) might not be bad for building a lot of skills. There's a ton of extreme metal songs there that throw a variety of things at you that will improve a lot of different skills - endurance with all three limbs (or 4 if you have a second bass pedal), polyrhythms, blasts, limb independence, etc.

Also, on the list, Caprici di Diablo doesn't really build anything other than 3/2 polyrhythms (which are connected to limb independence but also useful on their own if you want to play a lot of metal), so I'm not sure if I'd put it in the "Hard stuff with multiple categories" list. It's definitely not as useful as Laid to Rest or Sleepwalker, but it's good if you have trouble with those and want something similar but easier and similar to help work your way up.
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chaosSyn  





Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, i'm going to try to address everything you put in here, but forgive me if i forget something lol.


Run to the Hills section:
I'll think about this, but i do like your suggestion about everlong first. I'll work on that at some point (i think i need to work on some more of the basics before i move on).

AYDY/WtD:
I haven't played AYDY on hard but i still can't pass it on expert that often so that's gonna have to come later on. Waking the demon i can manage easily until that offbeat pattern from hell. So that'll come later too.

Suggested songs:
I'll keep that whole section you wrote up in mind, but unless i really like the song (like you suggested for the metal songs) i'd prefer not to buy it if i can play an on disc song to get the same benefit.

Would you be willing to "redo" my list for me and put the categories in a good order? it seems really out of order to me (tho i could be wrong). Oh and i just bought rock band 3 last night, now i need to calibrate it
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Quazifuji  





Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 1344

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chaosSyn wrote:

Suggested songs:
I'll keep that whole section you wrote up in mind, but unless i really like the song (like you suggested for the metal songs) i'd prefer not to buy it if i can play an on disc song to get the same benefit.

Would you be willing to "redo" my list for me and put the categories in a good order? it seems really out of order to me (tho i could be wrong). Oh and i just bought rock band 3 last night, now i need to calibrate it


I'm not sure if the order of the categories is that bad right now. It's hard to put them in an exact order because they're really just different skills. Some of them obviously come before others (natural sticking before natural sticking with tricky bass, for example), but a lot of them are just different skills to develop. If your main goal is metal songs, though, swing beats usually aren't too important, so worry less about those. The other skills are all important, though, particularly the ones involving kicks. You really need a strong foot for tough metal.

Sticking with disc songs and DLC you like is probably the best way to go if you're on a budget. My biggest recommendation is probably to look for songs you like (especially on RBN, since some are half price and there you can get the trials - you might not have heard of a lot of the bands, but if you're a metal fan you'll probably find stuff you like there), use youtube videos, previews, and tiers to pick out ones that you think you can manage, and play those a lot. It might be hard to find ones you can handle, but when you do those will probably be the best songs for improving the skills you want, since they'll be the types of songs you want to be able to play.

One thing to note with RBN though: the tiers are a bit messed up in RB3. The current version of RBN is designed for RB2, and the difficulties are set so that they all appear at the easy end of their tier in RB2. RB3 has different tier cutoffs, though, which moves things around a bit. Most importantly, this means anything RBN song that's supposed to be final tier will be tier 5 in RB3, even if it's something stupidly difficult like We Are the Nightmare. If you want to find out the real tier of an RBN song, either go to creators.rockband.com and look it up, download the trial and see where it goes when sorting by difficulty (songs that should be final tier will be grouped together near the hard end of nightmare tier, songs that are supposed to be nightmare will be group together towards the easy end), or just look at the song in RB2.

Anyway, a few RB3 songs that might be good for practicing different things on the list (these are all pretty tough though):

25 or 6 to 4: Foot endurance/speed
Beast and the Harlot: Foot endurance, offbeat kicks
Caught in a Mosh: Thrash beat (no offbeat bass, but it's fast)
I Can See For Miles: Natural sticking with lots of bass
Crazy Train: Natural sticking
The Killing Moon: Natural sticking
Whip It: Natural sticking
Radar Love: Swing beat

25 or 6 to 4, Beast and the Harlot, and Caught in a Mosh would be particularly good for building good skills for playing metal songs, although you may need to work on easier songs a bit before you can handle those.
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voidedalive2x  





Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 7922
Location: jefferson city, MO

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chaosSyn wrote:
Sorry, i'm probably a noob for asking this question, but can you write out the song titles for the songs you suggested? i'm not to familiar with the dlc to know which songs you're talking about. But once i know i'll add them all to the list.

SfV=Screaming for Vengeance

WtD=Waking the Demon

AYDY=Are You Dead Yet?

Sorry about that.
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Nubnut  





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quazifuji wrote:

Caught in a Mosh: Thrash beat (no offbeat bass, but it's fast)


I'd also add this to extremely fast bass training, as if im not mistaken it has the fastest bursts of gallop bass in the game during the solo, and not to mention it's ridiculously fast with your right hand if your just beginning (faster than the slowest of the Visions blasts I believe).
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chaosSyn  





Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright guys i updated the list again, but i'm thinking about maybe changing the color of the song names depending on its game so other people that want to use this list can use the songs that apply to them. Also, can you guys look over the bolded songs and tell me if they're in the correct order (from easiest to hardest)? Thanks again for everyone's help!

EDIT: oh and can someone please tell me the secret to calibrating stupid rb3? I'm still playing rb2 since i can't find the calibration that works for 3. :/
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Nubnut  





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try adding 20-30 to your calibration numbers from RB2, that seems to do the trick for most people
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chaosSyn  





Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nubnut wrote:
Try adding 20-30 to your calibration numbers from RB2, that seems to do the trick for most people


So let's say my audio setting is -70 (not really what it is), so are you saying -90/100 or -50/40?
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Sarg338  





Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 5143

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chaosSyn wrote:
Nubnut wrote:
Try adding 20-30 to your calibration numbers from RB2, that seems to do the trick for most people


So let's say my audio setting is -70 (not really what it is), so are you saying -90/100 or -50/40?


-70
+20
-50
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nextneilpeart95  





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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nubnut wrote:
Yup that's looking good.

Though I will add if you're gonna start getting into harder stuff, you may want to look into Constant Motion. This song literally has everything (though is easily one of the hardest songs in the game for someone who lacks limb independence), thrash beats, thrash beats with double kicks, quads, double stroking, odd time signature drumming.

And of course to every beginning drummer, the absolute mindfuck that is guitar solo A-E on drums.

EDIT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O51u2zLw-Zs&feature=related

Also, for limb independence between your leg and foot, there is no song better than Love Spreads.


A fun song played by a douche of a drummer.....

Seriously, Constant motion is great. Numbnut is right, literally has everything. Double kicks are especially great and abundant. It all has more thrash beats and quad fills, and is just plain difficult. to give you an idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A0Fsp2WcSE

also, another song I love and improved alot from was Almost Easy. It's got fast bass, fast rolls on top of those bass, blasts, slow thrash beats, lots of alternating pads and kicks, and a bit of double kick independence all wrapped up in a snug little package.

All my thoughts for know :P
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