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New Charts Are Here!!! (w/ Pro Keys)
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bclare  
 




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarylZero wrote:
is scoring for pro drums actually different? if not there is less incentive to do the extra work just to draw the cymbal gems. pro guitar/bass i have no plans to touch at all, i mean how many FCs are there anyway.


On Pro drums with full cymbals (all 3) applied, each hit is worth 30 points instead of 25, so the path would be exactly the same just a higher score. If you don't have 3 cymbals set up then it's a mix of 25s and 30s, but I don't think that's a situation that needs to be represented. There are quite a few people getting Pro drum FCs though, and probably will be more once people get cymbals.
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DarylZero  
 




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i meant FCs for pro guitar/bass ;)
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ricecake  
 




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would be nice to see the Pro Guitar/Bass charts, not necessarily for pathing purposes but at least to study the charts, since sometimes practice mode and the song trainers aren't enough for charts as complicated as these are. You would probably need to do both the 17-fret charts for the Mustang and the 22-fret charts for the Squier if you choose to ever do them.
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singemfrc  
 




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarylZero wrote:
@Icemage
is scoring for pro drums actually different? if not there is less incentive to do the extra work just to draw the cymbal gems.
Yes, cymbals count for more than toms. 35 versus 25 I believe.
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Icemage  
 




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarylZero wrote:
@Icemage
is scoring for pro drums actually different? if not there is less incentive to do the extra work just to draw the cymbal gems.

I haven't checked myself, but I believe Pro Drums scores an extra 5 points per note on any lane where cymbals are active (this depends heavily on how many cymbals you own on your kit, obviously - 1, 2, or 3).

Quote:
pro guitar/bass i have no plans to touch at all, i mean how many FCs are there anyway.

Fair enough, I merely point it out because Pro Guitar especially scores a metric ton more points. A 6-string chord strum is worth 60 points per string for a total of 360 base points. This can have extreme effects if you're trying to optimize a full band score, for instance.

Pro Keys are similarly insane scoring-wise, with up to 4-key chords worth 60 points per note.

Quote:
as far as parsing the pro keys from the midi, that's really not much harder than regular keys. the hard part was getting extended sustains working, which was necessary for regular keys in the first place. coming up with drawing pro key charts in a nice way might be a little challenging however.

That's really what I was getting at. There just aren't a whole lot of palatable options visually for showing 25 keys, and ditto for pro guitar/bass with the 17-22 frets on the pro guitars.

Quote:
i am making progress toward drawing harmonies, but how is the scoring different? is it like 1000 * #parts in the phrase per phrase?

On any phrase where harmonies are available, they are worth 10% more base points per additional harmony. So if a phrase has 2 vocal parts, it's worth 1100 points on Expert Harmonies: 1000 for the first line, and 100 for the 2nd. For a three-part harmony phrase, that becomes 1200 points (1000 for lead, 100 each for harmonies).

Quote:
when you say "aside from mid-phrase windows" you make it sound like the mid-phrase gap for a window to appear is different from inter-phrase gap. do you know if that's the case?

I honestly don't know the answer to this, as we don't have a lot of other reasonable examples to compare against except Green Day Rock Band (TBRB only barely counts since its songs aren't exportable and therefore can't be directly compared).

If I was forced at gunpoint to guess, I'd say it's still 600ms even mid-phrase, but I don't think it's a safe assumption without some testing.
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ricecake  
 




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Icemage wrote:
There just aren't a whole lot of palatable options visually for showing 25 keys, and ditto for pro guitar/bass with the 17-22 frets on the pro guitars.

Well for pro guitar/bass, it could be displayed just like a standard tablature. Six lines for the strings, and print the numbers on them. This would also match what is displayed in-game. I do agree that pro keys could be pretty messy to make a display that's consistent with what the game displays.
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singemfrc  
 




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarrylZero wrote:
As far as scoring/percussion bonuses I'm using this thread as my reference. after actually playing and checking, each percussion note seems to be worth 100 points (assuming you get 100%), not 125.
The reason the formula had 125 before is because you used to get 25 per tap hit when you hit it, and then a bonus of 100xtaps upon completion for perfection. In RB3, they just eliminated the real time points and kept the bonus.


Hey Darryl, how up to date are the charts? I was looking for Soul Sucker part of the Doors pack and it isn't in there. Are you getting charts from ajanata as Kawigi does, or are you pulling them from your HD yourself?
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ProffessorJoe  
 




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

singemfrc wrote:
DarylZero wrote:
@Icemage
is scoring for pro drums actually different? if not there is less incentive to do the extra work just to draw the cymbal gems.
Yes, cymbals count for more than toms. 35 versus 25 I believe.


For the record this is only correct when you have less than 3 cymbals active. If you have all 3, every note is worth 30, making the max possible score exactly 20% more than the non-pro equivalent.
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singemfrc  
 




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to know. But yes it would be very useful to have cymbal icons, not only for pathing but just for learning a song.
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DarylZero  
 




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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I added what I have so far for harmonies.

I've set the scoring as best as I can tell. Phrases seem to only get 1000 points if all parts in the phrase are all talkies. if one part is sung and the 2nd part is all talkies again you only get 1000 points. see caught in a mosh as an example.

In TBRB, phrases with all talkies don't seem to get scored at all, see i am the walrus. currently i do not account for this.

Overlapping parts should blend the colors together so you can tell which parts overlap.

I currently only draw lyrics and OD activation fills for the blue line. I would have to figure a nice way to draw the other parts' lyrics (if it's even really necessary) and you have so many more activation options with harmonies i imagine it's pretty easy to tell.

I'm now drawing talkie notes a bit shorter than before because the other harmony parts talkies can overlay the activation fills for the blue part and it looked bad when that happened.


As far as scoring goes, I came up with this table based on my best guess where ScoresTalkies would be yes for RB3 and no for TBRB for example. Let me know if it looks correct.
Code:

 * PartCount   TalkieCount      ScoresTalkies   Points (Expert)
 * 1         0            n            1000                     
 * 1         0            y            1000
 * 1         1            n            0
 * 1         1            y            1000
 * 2         0            n            1100
 * 2         0            y            1100
 * 2         1            n            1000
 * 2         1            y            1000
 * 2         2            n            0
 * 2         2            y            1000
 * 3         0            n            1200
 * 3         0            y            1200
 * 3         1            n            1100
 * 3         1            y            1100
 * 3         2            n            1000
 * 3         2            y            1000
 * 3         3            n            0
 * 3         3            y            1000

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r0bd0g  
 




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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey harmonies! YAY! AT LAST! What's your address; I'm sending you a muffin basket.

- TBRB, the minimum window size is 800ms and not 600ms.
- Talkies on any part prevent windows from appearing on all others (and I couldn't tell from your post whether or not you accounted for this).
- For drawing harmony lyrics, just put them above the chart, like how the game does it? Or below like ajanata? It's just an extra set of words?
- Maybe for harmony windows, just put the pink bg whenever anybody has a window?

http://site.tmullin.net:81/ipather/charts/xharms_xguitar_xbass_xdrums/abbeyroadmedley_xharms_xguitar_xbass_xdrums_blank.png
HOLY HELL.
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ajanata  
 




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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r0bd0g wrote:
- For drawing harmony lyrics, just put them above the chart, like how the game does it? Or below like ajanata? It's just an extra set of words?


I think it would be reasonable to draw the lyrics for the harmony parts only when they are different from the main lyrics. You still have the problem of figuring out where to put them, but it wouldn't look as busy.
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redskinsrock2689  
 




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn I was hoping you had the new dlc and some rbn. Nice stuff anyways though.
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DarylZero  
 




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i added display of harmony lyrics and modified scoring a bit for talkies. in whip it for example, the first phrase has harm1 with all talkies and harm2 being sung but it is scored at 1100 not 1000. if harm1 were sung and harm2 were all talkies i believe it would be scored at 1000.
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DarylZero  
 




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've added pro drum charts, let me know if the way I'm drawing cymbal notes is adequate. I didn't want to make them much wider otherwise some songs would have overlapping notes. For these charts all notes are being scored at 30 points instead of 25.

@singemfrc/others
Unfortunately the DLC is pretty much the same as ajanata's, though I believe I have a few songs he might not have up. If you have a transfer cable and want to help, PM me ;)
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