FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Do I need to know how to play the piano to play Pro Keys?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ScoreHero Forum Index -> Technique, Style, and Gameplay -> Keys
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
raunch99  





Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

malictus wrote:
Another 'easy' song that is tough to FC is Oye Mi Amor because of that one very rapidly repeating note near the beginning. I can hit it every once in a while, but ONLY by using both hands and alternating hands. I seriously doubt that anyone who has FC'ed that used one hand.


I've have hit that part twice using only 1 hand, basically just tapping my index finger as fast as possible. I tried it with 2 hands also and seemed to have less luck...go figure.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: raunch99 Wii Friend Code: 5200184951610899
TheLonging  





Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 4188

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah that part. I use two hands, I can't hit it with one hand.
_________________
I wanna thank you for letting me be myself.

NavyCherub wrote:
AshleyWilis wrote:
hi for me Its something different...
It seems like Full sound full combo...
I mean It show passion and determination for my guitar
Smoke weed erryday.
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message Visit poster's website
Skyp1e  





Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

malictus wrote:
Another 'easy' song that is tough to FC is Oye Mi Amor because of that one very rapidly repeating note near the beginning. I can hit it every once in a while, but ONLY by using both hands and alternating hands. I seriously doubt that anyone who has FC'ed that used one hand.


I'm going to share one of my personal secrets with you for things like this. I watched the video so I know what you're talking about and I know how I approach such things.

Whenever I need to "machine gun trill" on a single key I use my 1st and 3rd finger to do it.

What that means is that I play with my thumb and middle finger on a single key as if I were trilling on two keys. Works amazingly well.

I cannot believe I just shared this one with the whole world.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: skyp1e
googleimage  





Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1229

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blingdomepiece wrote:
googleimage wrote:
Of the very good pro keys players that I have talked to and/or seen, the consensus has been unanimous that 2 hands is A-OK.


Well, I don't really know what A-OK means in your post. I think we agree that it's not cheating already.

A-OK means not only is it not cheating, it's not even frowned upon.

As for the rest of your post, I think you're arguing based on a set of criteria that people generally won't use when they're playing Rock Band. If you want to use Pro Keys purely as a teaching tool, and you want to play one-handed because that will give you a more classically trained skill set on a real keyboard, that's great. You'll probably get a lot of value. But we shouldn't pretend that this is the only way to play Pro mode, as it is still a game mode, albeit one that brings us that much closer to the real deal.

At the end of the day, that score isn't a grade on how you play keyboard - it's a grade on how you play the game; the game doesn't know if you let your wrists sag or if you used improper fingering. It's the distinction between playing the game to do well at it vs. playing the game to learn the instrument. I don't see any approach as being innately superior to the other.
_________________
Hey, Lindsay Lohan - "drink Canada Dry" is a slogan, not a dare!
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message PSN Name: googleimage
blingdomepiece  





Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 4358
Location: Ottawa ON Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

googleimage wrote:
blingdomepiece wrote:

Well, I don't really know what A-OK means in your post. I think we agree that it's not cheating already.

A-OK means not only is it not cheating, it's not even frowned upon.


Well, some people don't frown on it, and some people do. There are posts on ScoreHero, the official forums, and Youtube. Many diverse opinions, like a rainbow! In this very thread you have a guy who used to play professional keyboards who prefers one hand; I don't want to put too much pressure on him but hopefully he will be good enough once he gets the game to qualify under whatever criteria you need to give his opinion weight.

But all that's really beside the point (it's an argument to authority, which is fallacious). The two top players who actually responded here indicated that they do play almost exclusively on one hand. That's a small sample size but I suspect it's representative.

Quote:
But we shouldn't pretend that this is the only way to play Pro mode, as it is still a game mode, albeit one that brings us that much closer to the real deal.


Of course it's not the only way to play pro mode. There are two approaches being discussed and both are ok as far as submitting scores. But I think there are advantages of one over the other in certain cases.

Quote:
It's the distinction between playing the game to do well at it vs. playing the game to learn the instrument.


And what I'm saying is that if you are a weak single-handed player, those two goals converge. The best way to get better at playing the game is to strengthen your right hand, and ignoring the problem won't make it go away.

And additionally, if you want to play the game to do VERY well, you kind of need your left hand to be able to whammy OD, so not learning to single-hand almost all the time is going to rob your ability to get the same scores as someone who can. This is Malictus' point from earlier.

You seem to be veering towards a dichotomy where either someone wants to play the game exclusively as a music instrument teaching tool (thus 1 hand) or they want to play to do well (do whatever it takes, baby). I think the discussion over the last page is a bit more nuanced than that. I'd be interested in your thoughts if you choose to take part in it. Do you mostly play with one hand, or two hands? Which songs do you choose two hands for? And do you consider yourself a top player based on your original post? I see you have a career score of 11.5 million so you're up there.

But to actually address your point, when growing up I never really liked video games where you could find an exploit that made it easier to win than intended. This happened a lot with the NHL hockey games, every year you could find some high-probability way to score on the PC. When I found them, I wouldn't do them anymore. Maybe my actual goal should have been to win each game by an increasingly absurd margin, but I had more fun playing the game as designed, and a greater sense of satisfaction when I accomplished my goals, having been faced with a more serious possibility of failure.

Finally, not learning to keep your left hand free prevents you from being able to enjoy a delicious snack while grinding for scores.
_________________
Expert Pro Keys: 50/63 GS, most recent The Killing Moon
Expert Pro Drums: 53/83 GS, most recent Free Bird / Oh My God / Oye Mi Amor
Expert Pro Bass: 6/83 GS, most recent Everybody Wants to Rule the World
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message
Skyp1e  





Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be honest. I think if I used two hands to play that I would have an easier time of it. I won't try to persuade anyone that one hand will get you better scores, at least not on a "per song" basis.

I won't be using two hands (when possible) because it isn't fair to ME to play with two hands. Not because it isn't fair to YOU. I need to explain that.

If anyone plays with two hands I don't consider it cheating or doing it "the cheap" way or anything negative gameplay wise. You're hitting the keys and that is all that can be asked of anyone playing this game the right way.

I choose not to play that way because it would be to my detriment to do it and ultimately in the META game it will hurt you too. The reason is pretty simple. Say you use two hand to play all the "medium" songs. Will this make the harder songs easier or more difficult in the grand scheme of things? You're using your, let's call it a "secret weapon" on the easy stuff and that crutch will hurt you when the songs get harder because you're blowing your wad early.

I won't try to suggest you need a free hand for OD because you can get a pedal for that since they patched the firmware.

Now, suppose that down the line RB4 or RB5 comes out and they start charting a larger keyboard with both hands? (my fingers are both crossed for this and I pray to the universe that it comes to pass one day although it might not be that likely I still fervently hope for it). Those people that play everything currently with both hands will have a steep learning curve to overcome while those that played with only one hand all along will not.

But let's suppose that my wish never comes true and the controllers for keys remain two octaves. Even so with DLCs and RBN providing new content all the time there is bound to be new Roundabout, LLAMA and Anti-Bodies type songs popping up. Again, if you use a crutch on the easier tunes (playing with two hands) and something comes along that makes us veteran one handed players start employing our southpaws to make do, you're going to find yourselves struggling in a big way.

It really is in everyone's best interest to play one handed or at least give it your best shot before throwing in the left hand towel. Keep lefty in reserve when you need to call in the cavalry and you'll find yourself doing better overall and not just on a per song basis.

All of that above was just my humble opinion, but I think it's based on pretty good intel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: skyp1e
googleimage  





Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1229

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blingdomepiece wrote:
Well, some people don't frown on it, and some people do. There are posts on ScoreHero, the official forums, and Youtube. Many diverse opinions, like a rainbow! In this very thread you have a guy who used to play professional keyboards who prefers one hand; I don't want to put too much pressure on him but hopefully he will be good enough once he gets the game to qualify under whatever criteria you need to give his opinion weight.

Now that's just not fair. You're basically saying I'm going to put on the blinders if that person's opinions conflict with mine. At least give me a little more credit than that. I think you're reading something in my posts that isn't there, which I explain later.

Quote:
But all that's really beside the point (it's an argument to authority, which is fallacious). The two top players who actually responded here indicated that they do play almost exclusively on one hand. That's a small sample size but I suspect it's representative.

That makes their accomplishments that much more impressive, so that much we can agree upon. But they also didn't say boo about those who don't. Clearly, if you're referring to YouTube as one of your sources on those who only accept one hand, "appeals to authority" ain't too high on your list. And I'm not sure how that's a fallacious argument in this case. I'm not referring to the top player consensus as a "4 out of 5 dentists agree, therefore I will also chew sugar-free gum" statement, so much as "this is the consensus amongst those who actually are playing the damn thing and doing so somewhat successfully." I feel this is far more preferable to letting the standard be set by Youtube commenters who hugely outnumber actual Pro Keys players yet, in the majority of cases, have absolutely no idea what the fuck they're talking about.

Quote:
Quote:
It's the distinction between playing the game to do well at it vs. playing the game to learn the instrument.

And what I'm saying is that if you are a weak single-handed player, those two goals converge.

Do they? You can do well at single-handed play without being a strong right-handed keyboard player, so a while connection exists, it's imperfect, to put it mildly. Once you start playing single-handed, a lot of the naysayers are still going to find a list of stupid minutiae in your technique to bitch about. Why cater to that crowd at all?

Quote:
You seem to be veering towards a dichotomy where either someone wants to play the game exclusively as a music instrument teaching tool (thus 1 hand) or they want to play to do well (do whatever it takes, baby). I think the discussion over the last page is a bit more nuanced than that. I'd be interested in your thoughts if you choose to take part in it. Do you mostly play with one hand, or two hands? Which songs do you choose two hands for? And do you consider yourself a top player based on your original post? I see you have a career score of 11.5 million so you're up there.

Well, the discussion over the last page is somewhat more about individual preference rather than acceptable practice - with reference to how the actual keyboard part is played by the original artist. My opinion on that is that if recreating the original artist's performance is the actual goal, I won't be posting my accomplishments on Scorehero. I'll be doing cross-country tours instead. i.e. the true measure of success will happen outside the game.

For in-game purposes, I have zero reservations about using two hands (you can tell ). That being said, the whammy is sort of an internal control that puts me on default for one hand, and I have to learn the song in order to figure out when two hands garners more success for me. I find myself doing this a lot on really fast scale sections, shifty sections, and those sections where you have anchor-chord/anchor-chord (e.g. Walking On The Sun, Me Enamora, Antibodies 2nd half). I find my right hand has improved this way almost in spite of myself. And even though I'm ranked fairly highly on the leaderboard, the distance between me and the very best is enormous. The distribution of pro keys performance is heavily right-skewed, and I'd say that I'm at the low end of the right tail, if I'm even part of the right tail at all.

Quote:
But to actually address your point, when growing up I never really liked video games where you could find an exploit that made it easier to win than intended. This happened a lot with the NHL hockey games, every year you could find some high-probability way to score on the PC. When I found them, I wouldn't do them anymore. Maybe my actual goal should have been to win each game by an increasingly absurd margin, but I had more fun playing the game as designed, and a greater sense of satisfaction when I accomplished my goals, having been faced with a more serious possibility of failure.

On those old NHL games (here I'm thinking NHL '94-'96 specifically), you didn't have online leaderboards ranking the universe of NHL gamers in this way. And at the top of that hypothetical leaderboard, you're holding a competition on who can best exploit those AI flaws in the game. If you're avoiding taking advantage of those flaws, it might make you a better NHL gamer, but it certainly won't make you a better hockey player.

At the in-game level though, the biggest difference between the two games is that NHL is innately competitive, while Rock Band is innately cooperative. When you're playing multiplayer in NHL, those rules have to be set prior to puck drop to maintain the competitive integrity. In Rock Band, you're only accountable to your other band mates, who won't feel cheated if you don't use a by-the-book technique. After that, it's all individual choice on how you play the game - and there's no right or wrong way in my opinion as long as you're actually playing it.
_________________
Hey, Lindsay Lohan - "drink Canada Dry" is a slogan, not a dare!


Last edited by googleimage on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message PSN Name: googleimage
blingdomepiece  





Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 4358
Location: Ottawa ON Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

googleimage wrote:
Now that's just not fair. You're basically saying I'm going to put on the blinders if that person's opinions conflict with mine. At least give me a little more credit than that.


I don't wish to deny you any credit . But ultimately I don't accept a hierarchy of opinion based on scores obtained. I'm certainly interested in how top players play. But once someone is playing pro keys on expert regularly, their opinion is as good as yours or mine. If you don't agree with that, I'm fine to leave it at friendly disagreement.

Pulling out Youtube comments is a bit dickish on my part. I just don't like the sentiment (which you did not explicitly express, to be fair) that certain players could exclude the opinions of others because they have top scores today. I don't think most top players would even want that authority.

But ultimately this starts to become talking past each other. Most top players say they will sometimes use two hands (point: you). Most top players are also saying they predominantly use one hand and acknowledge there are advantages (in score) to doing so (point: me). These two points don't contradict each other. I also believe that it's better for the purposes of improving both as a player in general and for in-game performance to mostly use one hand, which is a point of contention.

Quote:
Quote:
And what I'm saying is that if you are a weak single-handed player, those two goals converge.

Do they? You can do well at single-handed play without being a strong right-handed keyboard player, so a while connection exists, it's imperfect, to put it mildly.


In this case I am not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good . Look, one advantage I have is that I am NOT a top player, so I can speak from the perspective of someone who spent a lot of effort simply trying to pass songs in late 2010 that I am now 5-starring or gold-starring. My strong belief is that my progress has been based on improving my right hand.

Quote:
Once you start playing single-handed, a lot of the naysayers are still going to find a list of stupid minutiae in your technique to bitch about. Why cater to that crowd at all?


Hmm. Well, I'm sure there is a point at which technique discussions become about stupid minutiae, but I don't think you can use that to argue that any discussion of preferred technique is the bitching of naysayers. I would compare this more to a discussion in the drum forum about double-bass, and not using double-bass unless the situation actually calls for it. You aren't obliged to follow that, and the game scoring system doesn't care, but you will probably be better off if you do because your right leg gets stronger that way. Why cater to that? Because you want to be a better drummer, I guess.

I guess what I'm wondering is, do you believe that someone will develop a better right hand as a result of using both hands than they will if they stick only to one hand? I doubt you are. If you are, I would wonder what the rationale is for that belief. Now, if you acknowledge that playing almost exclusively with your right hand WILL result in a stronger right hand than otherwise, then wouldn't you agree that someone with a stronger right hand has an advantage over someone without one? In both cases the left hand isn't going to develop. It seems to me that it becomes a tortoise-and-hare situation where the stronger right hand will eventually win out because as Skypie says, at some point that person CAN add their left hand in and they have better tools/technique overall.

Quote:
I find myself doing this a lot on really fast scale sections, shifty sections, and those sections where you have anchor-chord/anchor-chord (e.g. Walking On The Sun, Me Enamora, Antibodies 2nd half).


I was just practicing Me Enamora last night and I still suck at it. I'm guessing the anchor-chord songs will be a common point where left hand is used; I've been able to get Imagine and Walking on the Sun, but find it harder to do Me Enamora and the SBSB post-choruses. There's no question I would rise quickly in 5-6 specific songs if I played them this way, and for all I know they are actually played that way IRL. But I also suspect there are some anchor-chord situations where OD activation/whammy/some weird transition makes using the left hand less desirable. If you CAN use your right hand for a section, your left hand is ALWAYS free to do whatever it needs to w.r.t. OD (a situation that becomes less problematic if you have a pedal, then you are only out whammy).

Quote:
At the in-game level though, the biggest difference between the two games is that NHL is innately competitive, while Rock Band is innately cooperative.


I would say from the perspective of a keyboards leaderboard it's competitive, but when playing with a band it's cooperative. Now, if I was playing with my band and we were grinding a song, might I be more willing to use my left hand at points to prevent choking? Probably, because at a certain point it becomes inconsiderate to the time of three other people to make them play a song an extra 7-8 times because I refused to use my left index finger 3 times.

Anyway I hope you don't feel disrespected in this discussion. I enjoy reading your insights. I don't think anyone is a bad person for how they play pro keys, and I think it's a more interesting topic when people don't have to feel like they are "defending" their playing style. But I also think leaving aside any "moral" arguments (about keyboards, haha), there are pragmatic/practical advantages to my preferred style, and these will lead (or already have) to single-handed playing being dominant and double-handed sections being infrequent, which IMO justifies suggesting to newbies that they improve their right hand ability as much as possible. I would encourage you not to reject the merit of these other points out of a concern that your own accomplishments would be looked down on; I don't think anyone is going to do so.
_________________
Expert Pro Keys: 50/63 GS, most recent The Killing Moon
Expert Pro Drums: 53/83 GS, most recent Free Bird / Oh My God / Oye Mi Amor
Expert Pro Bass: 6/83 GS, most recent Everybody Wants to Rule the World
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message
googleimage  





Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1229

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blingdomepiece wrote:
googleimage wrote:
Now that's just not fair. You're basically saying I'm going to put on the blinders if that person's opinions conflict with mine. At least give me a little more credit than that.


I don't wish to deny you any credit . But ultimately I don't accept a hierarchy of opinion based on scores obtained. I'm certainly interested in how top players play. But once someone is playing pro keys on expert regularly, their opinion is as good as yours or mine. If you don't agree with that, I'm fine to leave it at friendly disagreement.

Pulling out Youtube comments is a bit dickish on my part. I just don't like the sentiment (which you did not explicitly express, to be fair) that certain players could exclude the opinions of others because they have top scores today. I don't think most top players would even want that authority.

Completely agree. I guess I can see how my initial posts came out that way, but I referred to the top of the leaderboard solely in terms of "who will this most directly affect?" I personally struggle with the idea that I'm a "top player", cuz I certainly don't see myself as one, and wouldn't lend my position any weight from that. I hope that my decidedly misleading leaderboard rank didn't become a factor in how that comment was interpreted.

Quote:
I also believe that it's better for the purposes of improving both as a player in general and for in-game performance to mostly use one hand, which is a point of contention.

Not a point of contention here - the recommendation of one hand holds a lot more merit as a matter of advice than as a matter of how you're supposed to play the game. It's advice I even agree with, but even that will ultimately depend on the goals the player sets out for him/herself.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And what I'm saying is that if you are a weak single-handed player, those two goals converge.

Do they? You can do well at single-handed play without being a strong right-handed keyboard player, so a while connection exists, it's imperfect, to put it mildly.


In this case I am not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good . Look, one advantage I have is that I am NOT a top player, so I can speak from the perspective of someone who spent a lot of effort simply trying to pass songs in late 2010 that I am now 5-starring or gold-starring. My strong belief is that my progress has been based on improving my right hand.

I think I can say the same thing ultimately. I 2-handed Last Dance's chorus when I started on Expert. I definitely don't any more. That switch wasn't even a conscious decision, but it happened because I had played enough to strengthen my right-hand dexterity to handle the chords at that speed.

Quote:
I was just practicing Me Enamora last night and I still suck at it. I'm guessing the anchor-chord songs will be a common point where left hand is used; I've been able to get Imagine and Walking on the Sun, but find it harder to do Me Enamora and the SBSB post-choruses. There's no question I would rise quickly in 5-6 specific songs if I played them this way, and for all I know they are actually played that way IRL. But I also suspect there are some anchor-chord situations where OD activation/whammy/some weird transition makes using the left hand less desirable. If you CAN use your right hand for a section, your left hand is ALWAYS free to do whatever it needs to w.r.t. OD (a situation that becomes less problematic if you have a pedal, then you are only out whammy).

I was held back from an Antibodies 5-star for the longest time because of this. I would always try to activate and quickly return, and I'd quickly plunk. I'm still not great at it, but I can at least activate OD without immediately starting at a 2x once in a while. I can't imagine ever 1-handing that section - but 4 months ago, I also couldn't imagine being able to pass 62 out of 63 songs on Expert, so who knows.

Quote:
I would encourage you not to reject the merit of these other points out of a concern that your own accomplishments would be looked down on; I don't think anyone is going to do so.

Again, the thrust of my position is borne out of there being nothing superior about my personal style, and I don't want to pit one style against another. But my style is the best style for me, at this present time, with my current skill set - and if I want to change it, I'll do so at my own discretion and not according to somebody else's definition of "acceptable practice". That's a luxury everybody should have. In the long run, the distance between our positions is minute, maybe even invisible. I just guess the difference is in how we perceive the overall attitude towards pro keys, that's all.
_________________
Hey, Lindsay Lohan - "drink Canada Dry" is a slogan, not a dare!
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message PSN Name: googleimage
jhsa  





Joined: 30 Mar 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blingdomepiece wrote:
Du Hast. The melody has that one low note (a low E I think) that keeps popping up and the rest of the notes fall easily in the natural A-E range. So if you use your left hand to hit that low note the section would seem to become much simpler. With one hand it seems you'd either have to move your thumb quickly (my current strategy, works at 70% but not as well at full speed), or anchor your thumb at E and do some fancy fingering with the high notes (probably what I do in the end).


Suggested fingering for that 'fancy fingering' (what I use): 5 4 2 4 3 1 2 4 5 3 / 5 4 2 4 3 1 2 4 5 3.

Since this is my first post, hi all. I guess I'll chime in for the two handed / one handed playing census. So far the only song I've even considered using the left hand is Antibodies (those pesky alternating two note chords at the end part).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: jhsa
Voltgloss  





Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 314
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh, forgot all about this thread. Let's see...

blingdomepiece wrote:
Two other songs that seem like they would be much easier with two hands (along with Dead End Friends):


I have recently been grinding Dead End Friends. Don't have the FC yet, but have had multiple -1 runs. I have come to the conclusion that the song DOES call for using two hands, but for the outro only (specifically, to hit the sixteenth notes with consistency).

blingdomepiece wrote:
Du Hast. The melody has that one low note (a low E I think) that keeps popping up and the rest of the notes fall easily in the natural A-E range. So if you use your left hand to hit that low note the section would seem to become much simpler. With one hand it seems you'd either have to move your thumb quickly (my current strategy, works at 70% but not as well at full speed), or anchor your thumb at E and do some fancy fingering with the high notes (probably what I do in the end).


I one-hand this. Use your thumb to hit the E, and the E only. The "fancy fingering" offered by the above poster looks about right.

blingdomepiece wrote:
In a Big Country. Maybe someone who has actually gold-starred this could correct me if I'm wrong, but this song seems easier to handle if you use your left hand to play the low chords (B-range) and your right hand to play the high E-range. I passed the song using my right hand and skipping most of the low notes, and have only recently been working on extending my hand the full octave for the moving chords (there is one sequence that is fairly easy because it's the same 4 notes, and then there is every other sequence that I can't do, haha).


Haven't FC'd this yet, but from playing it through multiple times, I don't see this as something calling for two hands. I also agree that being able to handle sequences of "moving chords" one-handed is a key advanced skill to learn, and this is clearly the song to do it. For a DLC version that's this taken up to 11, try The Stranger.

blingdomepiece wrote:
Me Enamora, Humanoid, Crosstown Traffic, and Something Bigger, Something Brighter are all songs that should get easier because instead of doing an octave range with your right hand, you can hit the low part with the strongest fingers of the left hand and the high part with the strongest fingers of the right hand.


I recently FC'd Something Bigger, Something Brighter. I did try using two hands on some runs as my right hand was simply getting tired holding the octave shape for the entire run of the song. But when I did that, my performance worsened because of timing mistakes. When I got the FC, it was one-hand all the way (after having built up my endurance).

Me Enamora I haven't really ground for an FC yet, so I reserve judgment there. Humanoid and Crosstown Traffic seemed pretty straightforward to one-hand after getting familiar with the song. (I know we've covered this before in other threads, but Crosstown Traffic is egregiously overtiered.)
_________________



RB3 Expert Pro Keys FCs: 58/63 + 214 DLC. My accomplishments thread.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail PSN Name: Voltgloss
Skyp1e  





Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyp1e wrote:
I'll be honest. I think if I used two hands to play that I would have an easier time of it. I won't try to persuade anyone that one hand will get you better scores, at least not on a "per song" basis.

I won't be using two hands (when possible) because it isn't fair to ME to play with two hands. Not because it isn't fair to YOU. I need to explain that.

If anyone plays with two hands I don't consider it cheating or doing it "the cheap" way or anything negative gameplay wise. You're hitting the keys and that is all that can be asked of anyone playing this game the right way.

I choose not to play that way because it would be to my detriment to do it and ultimately in the META game it will hurt you too. The reason is pretty simple. Say you use two hand to play all the "medium" songs. Will this make the harder songs easier or more difficult in the grand scheme of things? You're using your, let's call it a "secret weapon" on the easy stuff and that crutch will hurt you when the songs get harder because you're blowing your wad early.

I won't try to suggest you need a free hand for OD because you can get a pedal for that since they patched the firmware.

Now, suppose that down the line RB4 or RB5 comes out and they start charting a larger keyboard with both hands? (my fingers are both crossed for this and I pray to the universe that it comes to pass one day although it might not be that likely I still fervently hope for it). Those people that play everything currently with both hands will have a steep learning curve to overcome while those that played with only one hand all along will not.

But let's suppose that my wish never comes true and the controllers for keys remain two octaves. Even so with DLCs and RBN providing new content all the time there is bound to be new Roundabout, LLAMA and Anti-Bodies type songs popping up. Again, if you use a crutch on the easier tunes (playing with two hands) and something comes along that makes us veteran one handed players start employing our southpaws to make do, you're going to find yourselves struggling in a big way.

It really is in everyone's best interest to play one handed or at least give it your best shot before throwing in the left hand towel. Keep lefty in reserve when you need to call in the cavalry and you'll find yourself doing better overall and not just on a per song basis.

All of that above was just my humble opinion, but I think it's based on pretty good intel.


I posted the above on the 5th of March before I had the game. Now that I've had a month to play it and have passed a fair amount of the material on the disk as well as over 150 DLC I will point out that so far I have only used both hands on The Killing Moon (at the end of the song) and when attempting (poorly) to play Antibodies.

Even when I flail about trying to get 3 stars on Roundabout I stick to just my right hand.

I actually DID try to bring my left hand into Roundabout, but I found it was getting in the way more than it was helping so I stopped that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: skyp1e
viukkis  





Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Helsinki, Finland

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to have missed this show of hands earlier, so I'll drop by to mention that I have been playing exclusively one-handed (including Antibodies which is great exercise). The one time I made an exception was during my Good Vibrations FC in the last season's league after choking on the low F in the break a couple of times. But I prefer wearing the controller like a keytar (I just can't help having more fun that way) and in that position it is really awkward to use the left hand on the keys, so it is rarely worth attempting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: viukkis PSN Name: viukkis
Skyp1e  





Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

viukkis wrote:
I seem to have missed this show of hands earlier, so I'll drop by to mention that I have been playing exclusively one-handed (including Antibodies which is great exercise). The one time I made an exception was during my Good Vibrations FC in the last season's league after choking on the low F in the break a couple of times. But I prefer wearing the controller like a keytar (I just can't help having more fun that way) and in that position it is really awkward to use the left hand on the keys, so it is rarely worth attempting.


Very impressive. Especially wearing the keyboard which I would never do for anything more difficult than songs with only 2 dots on them. Oh and BTW....GENTLE GIANT!!!!! ONLY MY FAVORITE BAND OF ALL TIME!!!!!

I forgot that I will sometimes use two hands on Space Oddity so that I can hold all the notes in the beginning chord because otherwise I run out of fingers. However more often than not I will just release the notes and simply play it one handed.

Also there is another song which I can't remember which one from the top of my head where I will sometimes hit the low note during a certain phrase (this only happens once in the whole song) because I will often miss or accidentally nip an adjacent key when trying to fly my hand across the keyboard to get it. Again though I will more often attempt it one handed instead.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: skyp1e
blingdomepiece  





Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 4358
Location: Ottawa ON Canada

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentle Giant was a great band. I helped put on a concert by a "surviving members" tribute band in Montreal a couple years ago; Gary Green, Kerry Minnear, and Malcolm Mortimore with some session guys. You can find some of the videos on Youtube if you search for "Three Friends FMPM". Mind you if Viukkis can play Antibodies on one hand keytar-style, he's probably in a Finnish prog band of his own.

re: thread, I have played four songs with two hands at this point:

Antibodies: I use it for the verses then switch to one hand for the second half of the song.

Roundabout: I use two hands for the super fast arpeggios in the Guitar Break.

Free Bird: I used one hand to pass this but now I typically use the index finger of each hand on the solo for the fast "gallops" because I'm significantly more consistent that way.

Paradise by the Dashboard Light: I use both hands for the first half of verse 2. (2:10 here). I expect to eventually repass this on one hand with a bit of practice.

There are a couple of songs where I miss out on notes by using one hand. For the synth solo in Prelude/Angry Young Man it's a lot easier to not attempt to play the four-note octave-spanning phrases fully, but instead ignore the low note and focus on the remaining notes. This would be a candidate for a bit of left hand help if I was so inclined. There are several sections of Roundabout where I do the same thing. So even though I'm playing those songs with one hand, I am truncating the part in a similar way that a two-handed player might where they would use their left hand.
_________________
Expert Pro Keys: 50/63 GS, most recent The Killing Moon
Expert Pro Drums: 53/83 GS, most recent Free Bird / Oh My God / Oye Mi Amor
Expert Pro Bass: 6/83 GS, most recent Everybody Wants to Rule the World
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ScoreHero Forum Index -> Technique, Style, and Gameplay -> Keys All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Copyright © 2006-2024 ScoreHero, LLC
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy


Powered by phpBB