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Keyboard Difficulty
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CyberRaiza  





Joined: 02 Oct 2008
Posts: 1194

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:54 am    Post subject: Keyboard Difficulty Reply with quote

If this thread seems pointless it can be deleted, but I'm just wondering how hard is keys (non-pro).

I have very little keyboard experience (maybe 3 hours my whole life if that). i still thought it would be a cool idea to jump right into keyboards on expert and after doing combat baby (4-starred), i played foolin three times culminating in me 5 starring it the 3rd time, then i played i love rock and roll, failing the first time, then 5 starring it the third time and i think something else somewhere in there i sightread 4 starred (i think it was a 2 or 3 star difficulty).

am i naturally good/lucky/realboard stuff really helpful or is keyboard a lot easier than all the other instruments (none of which i could jump in on expert, all were easy or medium)
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nextlevel88  





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't say that keyboards are easy, but I do think that they're much easier to pick up for several reasons:
    First, it's simpler; five fingers, five lanes, as opposed to four fingers, five lanes on guitar, and three limbs, five lanes (counting kicks) on drums.

    Second, it's intuitive. The gem crosses the line, you push the button, end of story. Much simpler than holding the appropriate color when you see it, then strumming with the other hand when it crosses the line on guitar, or deciphering complex beats and picking which hand to hit them with on drums.

    Third, we're used to it. We've been breaking gems on that line for years now, and this is just another way of doing it. It's slightly different, but the colors are the same and in the same place as we've been seeing since the original Guitar Hero. Hand-eye recognition is already done, now it's just combining it with the new muscle memory.


So, easier to pick-up? Yes. Easy? Not necessarily (see "Roundabout").
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Kawigi  





Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nextlevel88 wrote:
I wouldn't say that keyboards are easy, but I do think that they're much easier to pick up for several reasons:
    First, it's simpler; five fingers, five lanes, as opposed to four fingers, five lanes on guitar, and three limbs, five lanes (counting kicks) on drums.

    Second, it's intuitive. The gem crosses the line, you push the button, end of story. Much simpler than holding the appropriate color when you see it, then strumming with the other hand when it crosses the line on guitar, or deciphering complex beats and picking which hand to hit them with on drums.

    Third, we're used to it. We've been breaking gems on that line for years now, and this is just another way of doing it. It's slightly different, but the colors are the same and in the same place as we've been seeing since the original Guitar Hero. Hand-eye recognition is already done, now it's just combining it with the new muscle memory.


So, easier to pick-up? Yes. Easy? Not necessarily (see "Roundabout").


There's another element you're missing, though. There are several songs on keys that really are trivial, by any definition. Keys also seem most likely to have lots of space, too (which doesn't make them easy all the time, Roundabout is kind of sparse, too :-) ). I think they're easier on average than the other non-vocals instruments, with a few more difficult stand-outs. Also, it can be played with one hand - the other hand is needed, but not for hitting notes.
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CyberRaiza  





Joined: 02 Oct 2008
Posts: 1194

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nextlevel88 wrote:
I wouldn't say that keyboards are easy, but I do think that they're much easier to pick up for several reasons:
    First, it's simpler; five fingers, five lanes, as opposed to four fingers, five lanes on guitar, and three limbs, five lanes (counting kicks) on drums.

    Second, it's intuitive. The gem crosses the line, you push the button, end of story. Much simpler than holding the appropriate color when you see it, then strumming with the other hand when it crosses the line on guitar, or deciphering complex beats and picking which hand to hit them with on drums.

    Third, we're used to it. We've been breaking gems on that line for years now, and this is just another way of doing it. It's slightly different, but the colors are the same and in the same place as we've been seeing since the original Guitar Hero. Hand-eye recognition is already done, now it's just combining it with the new muscle memory.


So, easier to pick-up? Yes. Easy? Not necessarily (see "Roundabout").


Good point. It's definitely not easy, but I was just caught off guard by how well i was doing. I was beating scores of my friends who've had the keyboard since the day it came out lol, but i dont know what difficulty they played on or how many times they played the song so.

But yeah it's not easy, just easier (kind of like real keyboard)
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"When things go wrong I seem to be bad
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Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"

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Icemage  





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Standard keys really aren't going to be a big leap for anyone who ever played Stepmania; for all intents and purposes, standard keys is just Stepmania with an extra button, which isn't "that" much of an adjustment; it's how I've managed to cope so far.

Pro keys, on the other hand... that's definitely a learning curve, and for that I don't think there's much short of prior keyboard/piano experience that will give you a significant leg up there.
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Shinji16  





Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Icemage wrote:
...I don't think there's much short of prior keyboard/piano experience that will give you a significant leg up there.


Everyone forgets about IIDX and Keyboard Mania...

"The Least 100sec" Double Real mode (Auto-play)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp0rxcj2KUg
"Algamest" DP/14 key Another
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYT5jR37vq8

Thanks to playing these and piano in real life I've jumped into Pro Mode no problem, and I currently hold top score on Llama Pro Key. Then again, my having experience in both these games and actual piano are a rare combo.
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Nuke39  





Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think easier to "step-up" is a great term for it. I jumped from medium-to-expert in literally, an hour. Part of it has to deal with the how easy the low-tiered songs are, but I think pressing-buttons in sync is programmed to any gamer in general. And keyboards are the most straight-forward example for that.

The only tricky part with standard keys, is learning a few simple rules.

-Learning to use your thumb
-Strange Chords
-Pressing one key and holding onto it, while pressing another (or learning to let go)
-Using your pinky
-Working with tempo, as touching the keys is much more different than the using some kind of object to stretch out. (Compared to Guitar, Stylus, etc)
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jesse0986  





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously since the instrument's so new, there's gonna be a severe lack of truly challenging songs. That said, the songs you've listed in the OP aren't really indicative of how tough they can get. There's a definite ramp in difficulty once you get to stuff like Me Enamora and beyond, and it all culminates with Roundabout, whose Keys chart is undoubtedly the toughest chart on any instrument in the game. The DLC looks promising too if you're looking for a challenge--I haven't picked up the full Doors pack yet, but I did get the three free songs and I failed each of them several times (especially Touch Me, which rocked me probably close to 20 times before I broke on through [to the other side?]).
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Azuarc  





Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only played through on medium so far, but the game definitely reminds me of how Guitar Hero 1 was. Except moreso. There's a lot of songs at the bottom where absolutely nothing is happening, or it's the same lackluster repeated part. (Werewolves in London, Need You Tonight, etc.) There's some tougher stuff in there, but there was in the last two tiers of GH, also. Expect HMX to hit us with some tough download stuff in the near future. It's evident they're at least picking bands with keyboard parts right now, with The Doors, Bon Jovi, etc. being the releases since the game came out.

The biggest things that separates a keyboard player from a keyboard plunker don't apply to non-pro keys. The only things that separate keys from guitar is that you're really not using your left hand, you ARE using your right thumb, timing is based on your right hand rather than your left, and in theory you don't *have* to shift your hand to cover all the buttons. Of those, it's the fact that my timing is now in the other hand that I found hardest.
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HyadesD4  





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one's mentioned yet that it's really easy to overhit, especially at first. Just a slight slip on the wrong key and you break combo. Also it takes a while to figure out how to hold the thing. Most people will probably start out playing on their lap, which is a big no-no for the wrists and hurts quickly. Playing keytar style seems to be the most efficient, at least on most songs.
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Azuarc  





Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno if playing on the lap or playing keytar is ideal. Ideal is finding something to put it on. For basic keys, keytar probably works well enough, but I'm mostly doing pro keys and for that keytar is downright annoying IMHO.

Your other point is dead on, though. It's very easy to brush other keys.
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CyberRaiza  





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brushing other keys is annoying, I played a bunch more keys today and I got 100% on some song i forget which (my first 100) to me but with overhits, got 5 stars and a great score on rock lobster (beating all of my friends) and some other stuff.

I think it ultimately depends on what you're good at. From playing real key board i have a decent control of my right hand going in and already have some experience using my thumb (though this is sometimes a bit of trouble), but even on a real keyboard i have trouble with brushing other keys so this still hurts in rock band.

Someone whose also a guitarist but not a drummer in rock band i think would have a slight edge via the fact theyre used to pressing in keys/frets

I also find it kills my hand after a few songs to sit on the floor and play on a cofee table, but i do better than putting it in my lap. i havent tried it keytar wise yet, that might be helpful.
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"When things go wrong I seem to be bad
But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"

"And no one, thinks, they are to blame
Why can't we see, that when we bleed we bleed the same"
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Spectrauma  





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regular keys are just a stepping stone on the way to pro keys. It's supposed to be fairly easy to pick up, otherwise the learning curve for pro keys would be ridiculous.

As for position, I keep the keyboard on a stand at arm height, if not slightly lower. I've tried several positions (with and without strap) and this was the only one I found comfortable.
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CyberRaiza  





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So after having done keys for almost a week (ive probably played 3-4 hrs of rb expert keys) i decided to jump into expert pro keys and just get a little feel for what its like. 6 tries on everybody wants to rule the world got me 2 49%s, 1 7%, 1 16%, and two others in the 20s i think.

Is that good, bad, or average?
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"It is dangerous to be right in matters in which the established authorities are wrong"

"When things go wrong I seem to be bad
But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"

"And no one, thinks, they are to blame
Why can't we see, that when we bleed we bleed the same"
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Azuarc  





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say start with an easier song. Not that that is top tier or anything, but there are considerably easier songs to play. Still, if you can jump onto pro keys without ever having done it, getting 49% on expert is pretty good IMHO.
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