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What's the definition of a FGFC?
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Davers  
 




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject: What's the definition of a FGFC? Reply with quote

Obviously it needs to be discussed as people have different opinions on the the matter. And just for reference, this was talked about on the GH side (albeit only Fug and myself answered):

http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=105376

My opinion of the matter is stated in that thread. As for the RB side, it's been proven that everything is FCable in each game (outside of the NTSC/PAL region differences), but non the less, FCable. Much like Trogdor.

FC Trogdor on PAL and everything else on NTSC = FGFC.
FC Trogdor on GHWT Custom and everything else on GH2 =/= FGFC (different engine)
FC BATM on GH2 and everything else on GH1 =/= FGFC (WAY different engines)
FC GGAHT on RB1 PAL and FC everything else on NTSC = RB1 FGFC.
FC GGAHT on RB2 PAL/NTSC and FC everything else on RB1 =/= FGFC (different game/slightly different engine?)

Those are just some examples. You might agree or disagree. That's what this thread is about. My opinion is that if the engine is in anyway different, then Imports/DLC don't count for any other game than the one it was FC'd on (Dueling Banjos in GHWT and Dueling Banjos on GHWoR are two different FCs since the engines are different).

There's a reason why it's called a FGFC (Full Game Full Combo); it's because all songs were Full Comboed in SAID game. Maybe it's different on this side of the forums though....

Please, let's be a little bit more civil than what we've been in other threads
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PiemanLK  
 




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Rock Band 1 song that's FC'd in Rock Band 3 is not a Rock Band 1 FC because you were playing it in Rock Band 3. Anyone who looks at the leaderboards and realizes there are separate sections for imports and DLC in EVERY game can figure this out in 2 seconds.

That said, GH2 NTSC and PAL FCs would be the same game because it's STILL GH2. Obviously they're not technically the same FC, but this topic is about whether something is a FGFC or not, ignoring video formats.
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eddaket  
 




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a nice talk with my friend about this earlier tonight.

In my mind a Full Game Full Combo is where you Full Combo all the songs *in* the game. Meaning in the original game. If you FC all the songs outside the game, then you can say you have FCed all the songs from RB1, but you don't have a FGFC.

This being said, if something is deemed to be impossible (like some people believe of Trogdor on NTSC), this makes the FGFC impossible. Every song in a game must be FCed to have a FGFC.

If you accept a GGaHT FC in RB3 toward a RB1 FGFC (which is most likely why this topic was made), you have to accept a BATM FC in GH2 toward a GH1 FGFC. They both involve the exact same chart on a different engine.

This also includes where the engines are identical. If Metallica was ever importable in Van Halen, a One FC in VH wouldn't count in my view. It's a different game. If the engine is exactly the same, there is no reason to do it in the other game. Likewise, if the engines of RB1 and RB2 are exactly the same, this means that GGaHT is FCable in RB1. Do it in RB1.

If the only difference between RB1 and RB2 is BNS, then that means the "engine" (or way the game is played/perceived) is different. Playing without BNS can be considered harder for some people. It sure makes things harder for me as I have found out with RB3 practice mode. If you can/have FCed GGaHT on RB2 without BNS, good for you. Do it in RB1 for it to be considered a RB1 FGFC.

DLC on the otherhand is completely different. I'm not going to touch on GH DLC since I still don't know how that works, but with RB DLC there is no set game. If you own RB3, you can play My Last Words. If you own RB2, you can play My Last Words. You need to own one game to get the FC. DLC FCs should count in all games.
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bclare  
 




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, a Full Game Full Combo means you FCed every song from that game. Doesn't necessarily all need to be in that game, imports are okay but customs are not.
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Davers  
 




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eddaket wrote:
DLC on the otherhand is completely different. I'm not going to touch on GH DLC since I still don't know how that works, but with RB DLC there is no set game. If you own RB3, you can play My Last Words. If you own RB2, you can play My Last Words. You need to own one game to get the FC. DLC FCs should count in all games.

I can't remember who I was talking to about this, but we came to the conclusion that as long as the engines were different, it is two or more separate FCs. But as far as I know, GH5 and GHWOR are the same engine (confirmed by NS employees), then a DLC FC in either would be considered one FC even if you FC'd it in both games. As for RB DLC, My Last Words would be a different FC in RB2 than in RB3 because of the engine difference. However, an FC is an FC no matter what game it's in when it comes to DLC (so MLW doesn't need to be FC'd in both RB2 and RB3 to be taken off the unFCed list).

Hope that made sense. Those are my opinions and thoughts. Obviously not set in stone.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davers wrote:
I can't remember who I was talking to about this, but we came to the conclusion that as long as the engines were different, it is two or more separate FCs.


So what about PAL vs NTSC? You don't consider people who use swapmagic to FC Trogdor to have a GH2 FGFC?
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Pas26  
 




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I start: assholes who clearly state their opinion as fact and acting like total jerks don't have a place in a debate. Try to convince me using varied arguments, not by saying "durr hurr different games". Obviously I can't stop you from thinking that your opinion is fact, but refrain from clearly stating it and instead try to convert me to your "facts". Thank you.



My main point is that, in RB2 (and RB1), depending on where you were born, you are playing on a different engine. Let's face it, GGaHT isn't extremely hard (relatively) on PAL; strike got the FC in a day and reFCed extremely quickly while ukog can pretty much FC it on purpose (on RB2 with BNS, that is). However, this new engine, coming under the cover of RB3, evens the engine for everybody. In RB3, the dude living in France has as much chances as the guy living in New York for a GGaHT FC (and Visions bass for that matter).
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BigFatBob  
 




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the "different engine" argument deserves an exception in this case. In GH1 the borked HOPOs affected every single person the world over in the exact same way, as opposed to the PAL vs. NTSC conflict seen in the strum limit. Overcoming the disadvantage of the GH1 HOPOs more directly involved raw skill from strumming every note to somehow effectively using the wacky anchoring system to genuinely hammer on/pull off notes, whereas for the strum limit there are a number of absurd lengths one must go to in order to overcome, from using PAL for lower refresh rates to meticulous trial and error with timing window abuse and even sheer luck for NTSC users (well, with PAL as well, but to a lesser extent, I'd think). With the release of Rock Band 3, the playing field for strumming is finally fair and leveled, so as far as I'm concerned, it's kinda ridiculous to see RB3 FCs of GGaHT to be considered a bastardization of an FGFC. I figured everybody would finally be happy that this was fixed, but then again, it just goes to show how masochistically picky we are about our completionistic (WOO, FAKE BIG PSEUDO-INTELLIGENT WORD FTW) tendencies.

Anyway, where's the line drawn? Here's a scenario: What if this strum limit fix were introduced via a patch in the RB1 era? Everybody would probably have been relieved and laid RB1 to rest on the spot, right? What would make that so different from RB3's fix? The extent of my agreement on the "Different games" subject is that RB3 scores shouldn't be entered in the RB1 leaderboard, due to scoring/leaderboard differences and what-not. Apart from that, I really don't care.
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PiemanLK  
 




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fudrick wrote:
So what about PAL vs NTSC? You don't consider people who use swapmagic to FC Trogdor to have a GH2 FGFC?


Well, like I said above, you'd have a GH2 FC, but neither a NTSC nor a PAL FC unless you did all the other songs on PAL too. A GH2 NTSC FC would probably never happen.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, IMO a FGFC should be done on the game the song is originally on. A FSFC however I think can be done on any game. Full Series Full Combo. FC'ing every song in the Rock Band Series. Nowhere does it specifically say what game it has to be in. But that's just my opinion
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bclare wrote:
To me, a Full Game Full Combo means you FCed every song from that game. Doesn't necessarily all need to be in that game, imports are okay but customs are not.

IMO, imports are NOT ok for FGFC's..
If i fc'd everything in RB1 ON the RB1 engine, except GG&HT, and then fc'd GG&HT on RB3 IMPORT where it's a crap-ton easier to hit the strumming, that would be one cheap, and I wouldn't consider it a real 'FGFC'. To me a FGFC is FC'ing every on disc song on the game engine that is on that disc.
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bclare  
 




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheHammer417 wrote:
bclare wrote:
To me, a Full Game Full Combo means you FCed every song from that game. Doesn't necessarily all need to be in that game, imports are okay but customs are not.

IMO, imports are NOT ok for FGFC's..
If i fc'd everything in RB1 ON the RB1 engine, except GG&HT, and then fc'd GG&HT on RB3 IMPORT where it's a crap-ton easier to hit the strumming, that would be one cheap, and I wouldn't consider it a real 'FGFC'. To me a FGFC is FC'ing every on disc song on the game engine that is on that disc.


Well then we disagree. I just don't see the rationale behind forcing someone to use a harder engine, which in a certain sense is broken, in that it doesn't work the way the game designers really intended.
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PiemanLK  
 




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bclare wrote:
Well then we disagree. I just don't see the rationale behind forcing someone to use a harder engine, which in a certain sense is broken, in that it doesn't work the way the game designers really intended.


Well, no one's forcing anyone to do anything. You CAN FC GGaHT on RB3 and it's still an impressive accomplishment. It's just not technically an RB1 on-dic FC. Even if you did it on RB2, it's still not an RB1 on-disc FC. It's an RB1 imports FC on another game. It's not like we want people to use RB1 and not use RB3 when RB3 strumming actually works the way it's supposed to, but you can't claim it as an RB1 on-disc FC if you do.
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Davers  
 




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fudrick wrote:
Davers wrote:
I can't remember who I was talking to about this, but we came to the conclusion that as long as the engines were different, it is two or more separate FCs.


So what about PAL vs NTSC? You don't consider people who use swapmagic to FC Trogdor to have a GH2 FGFC?

I consider it a FGFC. As long as it's in the same game. The engines are the same minus the fact the refresh rate is lower. But that's not the developers fault, that's a worldwide thing that can't be overlooked obviously. As I stated in the OP, I believe:

FC Trogdor on PAL and everything else on NTSC = FGFC

Same engine, same game, different region. Different regions (NTSC/PAL) can't really be helped, and I know that people on SH give this issue a break which is why swap magic is so widely accepted for Trogdor.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PiemanLK wrote:
bclare wrote:
Well then we disagree. I just don't see the rationale behind forcing someone to use a harder engine, which in a certain sense is broken, in that it doesn't work the way the game designers really intended.


Well, no one's forcing anyone to do anything. You CAN FC GGaHT on RB3 and it's still an impressive accomplishment. It's just not technically an RB1 on-dic FC. Even if you did it on RB2, it's still not an RB1 on-disc FC. It's an RB1 imports FC on another game. It's not like we want people to use RB1 and not use RB3 when RB3 strumming actually works the way it's supposed to, but you can't claim it as an RB1 on-disc FC if you do.


No one claimed a RB1 on disc FGFC. They claimed the RB1 FGFC, which, depending on how you see the term, either means that you have FCed all the songs that are in the game OR FCed every songs using this specific game. Some people see a game like a setlist and other like a material CD that needs to be FCed.
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