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punkmetalpimp677
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 121
Location: JMU, VA
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 Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to get off the whole drum-charting topic--but I was wondering--when we finish charts for non-guitar stuff, do we put them in the custom song index for the GH section of SH or what? We should get some kind of index over here...
As far as the all 16 difficulties go, let's make it a bit easier--say 12? All difficulties for vocals and drums, a H/X for guitar and bass. Only reason I say that is that while drums & vocals are really easy to "water down" by just taking stuff out, with bass and guitar you get a smaller and smaller range of notes as it gets easier. Plus most people who play RB are probably good enough to guitar or bass on at least hard. I mean, it's a good idea to do guitar and bass on all difficulties, but I don't think we should mandate it.
Just as far as the drum difficulties go, I'm charting a whole bunch of Dream Theater stuff (so crazy drums obviously) and my thought was make the Expert chart the real thing (aka impossible) and the Hard one realistic. Probably a good standard for most double-bass stuff: the Hard chart is really what you're going to be trying to play.
Anyways, just my thoughts on a bunch of random stuff. If I've ignored something with the whole "let's make an RB song index!" thing I'm sorry, but yes i have read the announcement at the top and I've read a whole lot of other stuff, so if I've overlooked something it's not cause I haven't looked for it.
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machchunk
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 3829
Location: Pasco, WA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
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I believe the vocal charts for all difficulties are the same, just that they award different base points and the range of error for pitch is wider.
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iwasaperson
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 633
Location: Some things don't change, this does.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| chart it in db with only guitar part. (do drums, guitar, and bass all in the guitar part) and create seperate .mid files with GHex. THEN use Anvil Studio and compile all of them together. |
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pksage
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 890
Location: Midwest, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| punkmetalpimp677 wrote: | | As far as the all 16 difficulties go, let's make it a bit easier--say 12? All difficulties for vocals and drums, a H/X for guitar and bass. Only reason I say that is that while drums & vocals are really easy to "water down" by just taking stuff out, with bass and guitar you get a smaller and smaller range of notes as it gets easier. Plus most people who play RB are probably good enough to guitar or bass on at least hard. I mean, it's a good idea to do guitar and bass on all difficulties, but I don't think we should mandate it. |
This is the logic that quickly leads to X only on everything. The main counter-argument, by the way: just because YOU don't know anyone who plays customs on Easy/Medium doesn't mean that people downloading your custom won't have friends who do.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to encourage integrity in chart creation. It's less than two hours' work for a talented chart creator to make good Easy/Medium/Hard charts for both guitar and bass from an Expert chart, and for shorter songs (or charts of lower quality) you should be able to do it in less than an hour. There's really no excuse not to do it; it's just laziness. |
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punkmetalpimp677
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 121
Location: JMU, VA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Just a couple things about the all-difficulties rule though:
A) If you do that it might discourage people from making charts cuz it's so much more work. Whereas for GH it was just 1 they had to make, now not only do they have to make 4, they have to make 16! I do agree there should be a 12-difficulty rule, or, failing that, at least have a way of saying before the chart is downloaded what tracks are available. It just seems like the harder you tighten the rules, the fewer charts will be made. And it IS better to have a perfect Expert-only chart than no chart at all.
B) I'm really worried that if you make it absolutely necessary, people will take a TON of shortcuts on the lower difficulties, making bad charts anyway. If it's really so "easy" to "water down" a chart, then someone who needs it done should be able to download a H/X or even an X-only chart and get it all done in a reasonable amount of time.
Don't get me wrong guys, I'm doing freaking DREAM THEATER and doing all difficulties, so I'm not at all taking the side of laziness. Just wanted to point a few things out that could go wrong if you did mandatory E/M/H/X. If you're all fine with that, go ahead with it; you won't see me complaining.
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Great Bands No One's Ever Heard Of:
Chronic Future
Borialis
Protein
Sev
LISTEN TO THEM AND SPREAD THE WORD!
(Dream Theater is still the best band ever) |
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machchunk
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 3829
Location: Pasco, WA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| punkmetalpimp677 wrote: | Just a couple things about the all-difficulties rule though:
A) If you do that it might discourage people from making charts cuz it's so much more work. Whereas for GH it was just 1 they had to make, now not only do they have to make 4, they have to make 16! |
No they don't. They only have to make 13.
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JanDeis
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| It isn't really that hard to do all difficulties for every instrument. I have done it for guitar and drums in Frets on Fire. I just took things out for the drum part, then took things out and moved notes around for guitar. |
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punkmetalpimp677
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 121
Location: JMU, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| machchunk wrote: | | punkmetalpimp677 wrote: | Just a couple things about the all-difficulties rule though:
A) If you do that it might discourage people from making charts cuz it's so much more work. Whereas for GH it was just 1 they had to make, now not only do they have to make 4, they have to make 16! |
No they don't. They only have to make 13. |
The vocals expand the range themselves on E/M/H? OK, I stand corrected, but still it's 13x the work. You get my point.
_________________
Great Bands No One's Ever Heard Of:
Chronic Future
Borialis
Protein
Sev
LISTEN TO THEM AND SPREAD THE WORD!
(Dream Theater is still the best band ever) |
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coastercrazy10
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 1066
Location: Champaign, Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: |
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I thought i saw a post from turkeyman that he said he will make it so dB can interpret the drums track correctly so there ends up being a bass line and the drums in the right order.
I generally do X only on guitar parts, but if i were to start doing drums i wouldn't have a problem watering down some drum charts. Of course, i'd have to buy the disc for PS2(because i think the PS3 peripherals work on PS2?), but that'd be ok. It'd be worth it. And Vox would be really hard for me...i have a good ear for what's wrong, but not always what's right.
-CC10
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pksage
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 890
Location: Midwest, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| punkmetalpimp677 wrote: | Just a couple things about the all-difficulties rule though:
If you do that it might discourage people from making charts cuz it's so much more work. |
YES. This is the point. It's no coincidence that the charts by people who churned out 3+ GH customs a week were terrible. A good chart should take you enough time to sync it absolutely perfectly and make a spot-on Expert chart that's fun to play; compared to the time spent on those two objectives, making Easy/Medium/Hard is a drop in the bucket that still manages to increase the quality of your final product immeasurably.
| punkmetalpimp677 wrote: | | If it's really so "easy" to "water down" a chart, then someone who needs it done should be able to download a H/X or even an X-only chart and get it all done in a reasonable amount of time. |
Your laziness shouldn't make other people do more work. Besides, for Guitar Hero, good charts (i.e. had animations) were MIDIs, which were a pain in the ass to convert to .chart for editing and then back again. You're fortunate that Rock Band PS2 customs won't have animations, meaning that just a .chart will suffice (assuming dB adds support for vocals and necessary track elements), but this doesn't give you an excuse to not do it.
tl;dr version: Even high-quality E/M/H charts take a very small amount of time. Don't be lazy. |
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Zilcho
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 332
Location: UConn
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Plus having other people do it creates more work than it saves.
Say the author does the other difficulties. They only have to be done once, as each person downloading the chart has a full chart already. Now say that the author only does expert. If 20 people are downloading the chart and adding all difficulties, they will have to make 60 tracks, assuming they only want to add the other difficulties for drums.
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thespike
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Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the best way to do it is to make drums first. With the four or five I've done, after drums, the rest of the song has damn near perfect sync.
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punkmetalpimp677
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 121
Location: JMU, VA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| pksage wrote: | | punkmetalpimp677 wrote: | Just a couple things about the all-difficulties rule though:
If you do that it might discourage people from making charts cuz it's so much more work. |
YES. This is the point. It's no coincidence that the charts by people who churned out 3+ GH customs a week were terrible. A good chart should take you enough time to sync it absolutely perfectly and make a spot-on Expert chart that's fun to play; compared to the time spent on those two objectives, making Easy/Medium/Hard is a drop in the bucket that still manages to increase the quality of your final product immeasurably.
| punkmetalpimp677 wrote: | | If it's really so "easy" to "water down" a chart, then someone who needs it done should be able to download a H/X or even an X-only chart and get it all done in a reasonable amount of time. |
Your laziness shouldn't make other people do more work. Besides, for Guitar Hero, good charts (i.e. had animations) were MIDIs, which were a pain in the ass to convert to .chart for editing and then back again. You're fortunate that Rock Band PS2 customs won't have animations, meaning that just a .chart will suffice (assuming dB adds support for vocals and necessary track elements), but this doesn't give you an excuse to not do it.
tl;dr version: Even high-quality E/M/H charts take a very small amount of time. Don't be lazy. |
Hey man, I said I personally am gonna make all difficulties. I just wanted to let people know possible downsides of making these limits. If you don't have any issue with the downside (apparently you don't) that's fine with me. I'll be making plenty of good charts with all difficulties myself.
_________________
Great Bands No One's Ever Heard Of:
Chronic Future
Borialis
Protein
Sev
LISTEN TO THEM AND SPREAD THE WORD!
(Dream Theater is still the best band ever) |
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thespike
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Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think at the least each custom should have the Hard tracks for drums, guitar and bass as well as Expert tracks. Medium for drums maybe too.
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punkmetalpimp677
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 121
Location: JMU, VA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| thespike wrote: | | I think at the least each custom should have the Hard tracks for drums, guitar and bass as well as Expert tracks. Medium for drums maybe too. |
Agreed. Maybe even Easy drums as well.
_________________
Great Bands No One's Ever Heard Of:
Chronic Future
Borialis
Protein
Sev
LISTEN TO THEM AND SPREAD THE WORD!
(Dream Theater is still the best band ever) |
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