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Rock Band Network Score tracking is Live!
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Barfo  
 




Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 2596

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigZ7337 wrote:
Again, there isn't any way for a Rock Band (this is RBN isn't it?) player to earn points.

BigZ7337 wrote:
I'd much rather be playing my RBN songs I bought or reviewing future songs (maybe playtesters could get points for testing Rhythm Author songs?) than play old games that I didn't like the first time around. GH3 was ok, but GHA sucked in my opinion. I have no reason, nor would I want, to play either of those games.

You are (i presume) a rock band player. I told you a method to earn some points (without donating). You expressed that you would rather do something other than that method to earn points, which is perfectly your choice, however this admission does pretty much negate your original point

for the record, i think this system would be improved (certainly in elegance, if not function) if there was a way for people to earn points using rock band 2, or RBN (though if its xna based htat would be much more rarified high cost of entry than proofing is), however i have no good ideas on this, but im sure the moderators are listening every time somebody suggests one. Cutoffs for RB2 for various reasons that arent worth going into right now are not a sensible way to do this, if they made any sense for RB (or gh series past gha for that matter) they'd already been done a long time ago.

And secondly i agrees that its very possible that 250 points is too high a number (i think 150 would be perhaps better), however its equally way too soon to actually confirm whether this is the case in a real empirical sense. it needs to be high enough that it actually weeds things out some, and provides a significant opportunity cost so that people have to pull together to get it, however it cant be so high as it prevents people from taking those first steps towards unlocking the songs they might want (and thus snoballing into complete lack of any community progress). Furthermore note that, even accounting for the numbers of points that might be tied up in users who dont check scorehero much anymore (for example how much does alex rigopoulous have?), even if only 10% of the quoted total of unspent points are spent, that would be enough to unlock 16 songs right out of the gate, if they were spent in a relatively focused way. 25% and thats almost 50 songs.
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internetguy87  
 




Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 3505
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a few arguments against the 250 point think. I will try to be as rational as I can be, but I am sure my opinion comes from an automatic bias not having any points, so sorry if its skewed too far.

1) Scorehero has said that they want to combine the GH and RB sides and make them crossover more now for a long time. I can't imagine this is the first major link they want between the sites.

2) I am a Rock Band drummer and vocalist. May I ask how I can unlock a song I would like to have score tracking on? Sure its my choice to drum and be a vocalist, but this is RBN, the network for a game which guitar is only 1/2 the instruments, not guitar hero 3 or guitar hero aerosmith where I would need to buy the game, learn the guitar.

3) Barfo I completely understand that you have spent a very long time getting the contribution points, but IMHO I have also spent a lot of time on THIS side of scorehero helping the community. I have spent hundreds of hours pathing out vocal songs by charts, and maintaining that thread (even if it has fallen behind a bit lately). I just think that until there is a way the average RB player can earn contribution points playing RB (how crazy is that) then contribution points is not the way to go.

I think contribution points should be much cheaper to buy (donating money). I don't see why this would hurt scorehero. No one currently would donate a dollar to SH for the reason of unlocking song tracking (there are other reasons to donate of course), thus making score tracking cheaper would allow SH to prosper a lot more and thus make a better site.
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ajanata  
 




Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: South Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There should a way for the moderators/administrators to award points to people based on what they do for the community at large (be it in the forums or in other projects which due to their nature cannot be hosted in forums (and I'm not just saying this because I've spent a lot of time and money with the charts, though that's certainly part of it as that is money that I was unable to donate directly to ScoreHero)). Though, that would probably degrade into favoritism without very strict rules that would govern the system... But point totals aren't very public to begin with.

I have no idea what I would suggest as a rate of giving points out for something like that, but it is something that should probably be done.
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iammax  
 




Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 438
Location: Westchester, NY

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It definitely should not cost 136 dollars to unlock a song.
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Barfo  
 




Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 2596

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

internetguy87 wrote:
3) Barfo I completely understand that you have spent a very long time getting the contribution points, but IMHO I have also spent a lot of time on THIS side of scorehero helping the community. I have spent hundreds of hours pathing out vocal songs by charts, and maintaining that thread (even if it has fallen behind a bit lately). I just think that until there is a way the average RB player can earn contribution points playing RB (how crazy is that) then contribution points is not the way to go.

Yeah, expanding on this very good idea, im not familiar with the pathing wiki, but if there was some way to link contribution points in to the little red/green icons by songs that would be great. Thats logical, it would support the community in a way taht would be very very valuable to the average player (in a way that performance based achievements for playing a certain amount of fcs doesnt). However, compared to not having any tracking at all, it doesnt make any sense to just have the idea for this system in place then hold off because at present there is no elegant way to earn contribution points via rock band. it sucks for people who because of the imperfect system have the opportunity cost raised higher than theyd want to spend compared to ahypothetical rock band link where they would be willign to spend the time, but that shouldnt mean that the system shouldnt be rolled out for those of us who in the past have spent that time, and who would be totally willing to spend more time in the future on that (even though its old games, and not at this poitn all that valuable to the community to farm those existing points out) until such a hypothetical future time as the system oculd be expanded to be more elegant. Either way its better to have even only a few songs past the RA songs unlocked than none at all in the meantime, i would say
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voidedalive2x  
 




Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 7734
Location: jefferson city, MO

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If such an idea (linking Starpower wiki paths to contribution points) has the potential to be impleneted, I have a couple questions:

1.) Would anyone who's inserted a path (me, for example) be given points for previous paths inserted (I'd get 609 points for 609 paths input into the wiki), or would it start at its implementation and not give out points for past inputs?

2.) Would I be rightly assuming that there will be a 1:1 ratio of point:Starpower wiki inclusion, regardless of how point 1 is handled?

3.) How exactly would you give them out? I mean, for some RB songs (at least for RB1), Ouzo has put in basic paths for almost every song and hasn't used the kinda official setup (the whole {{path}} part), yet not every one of the dots turn red if she puts in such a path (You won't see it now, since I put in paths from PatHero were there were red dots, but they were there). However, if you put in the official setup, I'm fairly sure that it will change to green.

I'm fairly sure you'll probably go by whether or not the dot turns green, but I just wanted to bring it up and hear your opinion on it.
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dave0113  
 




Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1426
Location: LaGrange, New York

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if this is the right place to post this or not but if anyone currently has extra points they are not using I would strongly suggest contributing them to getting Push Push (Lady Lightning) up for scoretracking. I already donated my 7 points towards it, but it still needs another 206 points to be activated. If this is the wrong place to post this let me know and I will make a post in the right place.
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KrakenEater  
 




Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 1053
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I don't think this is the right way to go about score-tracking non RA songs. In the past, contribution points have been a reward towards helping out, and you are rewarded with being able to keep track of more scores, have your stats in your signature, etc. Using those points to "buy" score-tracking is more a reward for the community. Yes, you benefit by being able to submit a score on that song, but everyone else benefits as much as you. Besides, it will (almost always) take more than one person to unlock a song. What if you're the only person to vote for a song? It seems like your contribution points would just be wasted. Personally, I'd definitely spend my points on something like more score slots, which I know I'll use.

For the record, I have in the past been motivated to proof/donate to get some of the rewards, especially more slots for scores. I just don't think this is really something contribution points should be used for.

I think that a better method would be to allow users to vote on the songs they would most like to see score-tracking added to. Maybe do something like this: allow a week of voting (ten votes for each person), then add the top twenty percent of vote-getters. Then, every week, let users vote again (either for new songs or for any song). This seems as though it would keep score tracking from being too bloated, but still have the most popular songs up for score tracking.

Sorry if this post comes off as ungrateful, I'm constantly amazing how much the staff contributes to this site every day. Just trying to suggest ways to make it better. It doesn't matter to me either way (PS3...)
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internetguy87  
 




Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

voidedalive2x wrote:
If such an idea (linking Starpower wiki paths to contribution points), I have a couple questions:

1.) Would anyone who's inserted a path (me, for example) be given points for previous paths inserted (I'd get 609 points for 609 paths input into the wiki), or would it start at its implementation and not give out points for past inputs?

2.) Would I be rightly assuming that there will be a 1:1 ratio of point:Starpower wiki inclusion, regardless of how point 1 is handled?

3.) How exactly would you give them out? I mean, for some RB songs (at least for RB1), Ouzo has put in basic paths for almost every song and hasn't used the kinda official setup (the whole {{path}} part), yet not every one of the dots turn red if she puts in such a path (You won't see it now, since I put in paths from PatHero were there were red dots, but they were there). However, if you put in the official setup, I'm fairly sure that it will change to green.

I'm fairly sure you'll probably go by whether or not the dot turns green, but I just wanted to bring it up and hear your opinion on it.


I think its WAY too early to start speculating into these exact things, no one has said we are anywhere close to going that down road...
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voidedalive2x  
 




Joined: 29 May 2008
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Location: jefferson city, MO

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just saying IF it has a chance on being implemented (Though I kinda left that part out, I'll edit that in after this post. Damn not forgetting to double-check, though its not an excuse!), not that I expect it to be.
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GH accomps: GHMMDrums FGFC, MOMBFGFC
RB accomps: 1 BILLION PS3 POINTS! 1st w/1B on 2 consoles!
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JRyder  
 




Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 1274

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting.

I think 250 points will prove to be too much in the long run, but in the short-term, if these unused contribution points are widespread amongst the community and there isn't a large berth between the haves and the have nots, this could be useful.

I can understand not wanting to have useless leaderboards posted for songs that only have cult followings--while I personally love "The Buddy Disease," for example, I understand that it's not necessarily the most interesting song on the majority of the instruments. Hopefully a lessened load on the server(s) running this site combined with a likely increase in donations will encourage work on the site to improve ScoreHero as a whole (I won't mention the r-word out of respect for this being a site that has gotten value out of my video game purchases), or perhaps allow Rhythm Authors to expand and attempt to reach out to a wider variety of bands (that we won't have to pay $136 to get score-tracking for ;) )

But then again, I know nothing about the likely numerous pieces that keep this site and RA moving, so I won't speculate too much.

I will second suggestions of finding new ways to acquire contribution points. Not necessarily making it easier, but is it not logical to assume that a good percentage of the people interested in RBN score-tracking have traded-in or otherwise rid themselves of the games that need the most help in proofing?
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Xpertlefty13  
 




Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Georgia. (Iceland if you wish.)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the guitar hero thing... I can't use my strat on guitar hero games... and especially now, $60 for a compatable guitar isn't exactly nothing for some of us.

Personally, maybe this could just be solved by... no scortracking?
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iammax  
 




Joined: 08 Feb 2007
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Location: Westchester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think any songs in previous GH/RB games should be automatically activated, because they're bought a lot.
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bclare  
 




Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 6048
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iammax wrote:
I think any songs in previous GH/RB games should be automatically activated, because they're bought a lot.


Well... since the "best of RBN" will be released on the other platforms like regular DLC, those songs should get scoretracking at that time. Which raises an interesting point: if that does happen, would contribution points spent towards those songs get refunded?
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blingdomepiece  
 




Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 4338
Location: Ottawa ON Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a suggestion I kind of hate but could still work:

Give people 1 contribution point every time they submit a score for a RA-authored song for which they previously had no scores. Maybe limit this to 1 per instrument if you are worried about people submitting for each difficulty.

Pro: SH wants RA "clients" to have an advantage: more people will buy your songs so they can get points to unlock the songs they actually want (haha)

Pro: instead of contributing $20 here to get 40 points, I can buy 20 songs and submit 80 scores and get 80 points.

Con: somebody has to actually code this including preventing exploits.

Anyway, I have to think about this some more. The extent to which I care is bounded by how much service PS3 actually gets for RBN in the first place. But my gut feeling is that if I can't track all my RBN scores here, I probably won't track any of my RBN scores here. I'll wait for someone to code a site where I can track all my RBN scores, or I'll code one myself.
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