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Barfo
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 2596
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 Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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heh awesome wya to spent my sitting around doing nothing points, makes me wish i had farmed points while narrowing for proofing long ago, cause if id taken pics of intermediate scores id easily have another 1000+ points (at cost of making the mods have to approve a lot of extra pics ;) ). also, is it sad or good that i have appx 2.2% of all the unspent points in my possession?
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BigZ7337
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 2022
Location: Williamsport, PA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not a fan of 250 points, it seems unfair to most people, especially when there's no way for a Rock Band player to earn points (other than from donating). It's ridiculous you're essentially saying people have to spend 250 dollars to track 1 song when on average 8 normal DLC songs are released every week.
I really don't see any tracks ever becoming available. This isn't about the community's choice of songs. You say there are 41,000 unused points, but how many users make up that bulk? Just take me as an example, I'm almost a freebird, I've posted thousands of scores, and I only have one contribution point.
A better way to do it would be to give every scorehero member 100 points to use on making songs available. Or give points depending on what member level they're at. Now that would truly be community enabled leaderboards. Or you could even give contribution points to members when they give proof that they bought a Rhythm Authors song.
For now, unless people who donated a lot of money or Guitar Hero players randomly throw points at songs, I don't see any songs other than from Rhythm Authors hitting the RBN leaderboards. 
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Sixen
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 1201
Location: Johnstown, NY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| BigZ7337 wrote: | I'm not a fan of 250 points, it seems unfair to most people, especially when there's no way for a Rock Band player to earn points (other than from donating). It's ridiculous you're essentially saying people have to spend 250 dollars to track 1 song when on average 8 normal DLC songs are released every week.
I really don't see any tracks ever becoming available. This isn't about the community's choice of songs. You say there are 41,000 unused points, but how many users make up that bulk? Just take me as an example, I'm almost a freebird, I've posted thousands of scores, and I only have one contribution point.
A better way to do it would be to give every scorehero member 100 points to use on making songs available. Or give points depending on what member level they're at. Now that would truly be community enabled leaderboards. Or you could even give contribution points to members when they give proof that they bought a Rhythm Authors song.
For now, unless people who donated a lot of money or Guitar Hero players randomly throw points at songs, I don't see any songs other than from Rhythm Authors hitting the RBN leaderboards. |
This is a very good point and I agree with everything he brought up. Also give points for x amount of scores inputted would be a way to give points as well.
I know you are trying to keep somewhat of an advantage on the other authors, but i think it just takes away from the community if we are unable to post score on songs because you decided to not to allow score tracking for that song.
How much of an effect do you think having only RA song guaranteed to have score tracking really will give you in sales?
It sounds like as soon as a song hits 250 it automatically makes tracking go live. Why not skip the process altogether and just give all songs scoretracking. It just seems this whole point system is overcomplicating things and just giving all songs score tracking from the get go is the best option.
If anything, allowing all songs score tracking will just make the community bigger. |
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Barfo
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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okay first two songs activated for score tracking:
KMFDM - A Drug Against War
Color Theory - If Not Now When (this song is awesome sounding, guys you should buy it - i cant wait to play the drums on it when i upgrade my harddrive and can reinstall my rb dlc)
Industrial and Synthpop bands: REPRESENT!!
Also to peoople whinging about how this means people will have to pay to get songs they want score-tracked, i just skimmed it and theres PLENTY of second proofs and narrowing left to be done on GH3 and GHA, two awesome games (also some for GH2-360, but that is muhc harder task). If everybody just spent 5-20 points on eahc of their top 5-15 songs that htey like the best, then that would be only 25-300 points each (you can easily get that in a couple of nights of proofing), and songs that had enough followers (12-50) would defintiely get unlocked pretty fast. There has to be a cost in either money or time, otherwise everybody would just want to unlock every song, and its better to leave it open ended then for them to say something like only 10 songs per month will be unlocked, everybody vote on it, which is essentially what they are saying with this system anyways.
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Watching her, these things she said / "Time," she cried "failed to wait, this time"
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Hush now / Let it go now / I know it's time to go / Time to let this fall / From my hands |
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BigZ7337
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 2022
Location: Williamsport, PA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Barfo wrote: | | Also to people whining about how this means people will have to pay to get songs they want score-tracked, i just skimmed it and there's PLENTY of second proofs and narrowing left to be done on GH3 and GHA, two awesome games (also some for GH2-360, but that is much harder task). If everybody just spent 5-20 points on each of their top 5-15 songs that they like the best, then that would be only 25-300 points each (you can easily get that in a couple of nights of proofing), and songs that had enough followers (12-50) would definitely get unlocked pretty fast. There has to be a cost in either money or time, otherwise everybody would just want to unlock every song, and its better to leave it open ended then for them to say something like only 10 songs per month will be unlocked, everybody vote on it, which is essentially what they are saying with this system anyways. |
Again, there isn't any way for a Rock Band (this is RBN isn't it?) player to earn points. I know that Rhythm Authors don't want to give other authoring companies free advertising, but what about the authors who are in the bands (just trying to get their bands name out). Shouldn't you guys try to help them out a little? Having people buy their songs for 99 cents isn't going to harm your turn-around.
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Last edited by BigZ7337 on Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Celeles
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Skaville, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Barfo wrote: | okay first two songs activated for score tracking:
KMFDM - A Drug Against War
Color Theory - If Not Now When (this song is awesome sounding, guys you should buy it - i cant wait to play the drums on it when i upgrade my harddrive and can reinstall my rb dlc)
Industrial and Synthpop bands: REPRESENT!!
Also to peoople whinging about how this means people will have to pay to get songs they want score-tracked, i just skimmed it and theres PLENTY of second proofs and narrowing left to be done on GH3 and GHA, two awesome games (also some for GH2-360, but that is muhc harder task). If everybody just spent 5-20 points on eahc of their top 5-15 songs that htey like the best, then that would be only 25-300 points each (you can easily get that in a couple of nights of proofing), and songs that had enough followers (12-50) would defintiely get unlocked pretty fast. There has to be a cost in either money or time, otherwise everybody would just want to unlock every song, and its better to leave it open ended then for them to say something like only 10 songs per month will be unlocked, everybody vote on it, which is essentially what they are saying with this system anyways. |
I think you missed the point, dude. It's easy to say that getting points is no problem when you're one of the guys with an absurdly ridiculous amount of points. Kinda like a multi-millionare not getting why people are complaining about the price of college, etc.
Basically, not everyone has an opportunity to get points, period, let alone get enough points to really contribute towards getting a song enabled. On a site that thrives so heavily on it's fantastic community, doesn't it just make more sense to set up a system in which more people can have a stronger voice in the grand scheme of things? If the guys running scorehero didn't want feedback on the idea, they wouldn't've made the thread open for public posting.
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iammax
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 438
Location: Westchester, NY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I think we should just vote on x songs a week that get activated, or they get activated by sales. I still am not convinced that this point thing is a good idea.
However, as I said in my last post, let's see how many songs are activated in a week, hopefully that rate keeps up.
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sadied0g 
Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 716
Location: Fair Oaks, California
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BigZ7337
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 2022
Location: Williamsport, PA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| sadied0g wrote: | Awesome,now I actually want to buy some of the new RBN songs 
Also just wondering, can anyone tell me if the RBN songs have practice mode like all other songs, like different sections and the abilitiy to slow down each part? |
I believe they do, but they just don't have names, so the sections are split up something like this:
0-5%
5-10%
10-15%
15-20%
And so on.
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Barfo
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Celeles wrote: | | I think you missed the point, dude. It's easy to say that getting points is no problem when you're one of the guys with an absurdly ridiculous amount of points. Kinda like a multi-millionare not getting why people are complaining about the price of college, etc. |
YOU are missing the point, DUDE. I have absurd number of points because of the tens and probably hundred+ hours i put in doing proofing back in the day*. Im not saying you need to put in that hundred+ hours like i did, i specifically ran the numbers and pointed out that even if people with zero points right now, instead of whinging got off their ass and spent a few hours doing some narrowing/proofs (of GH3 and GHA songs on their console of choice, both of htose have no fail so its not too hard) theyd have enough points to contribute as a factor in getting several songs they wanted activated. if a song doesnt have 10 or 20 people who can be arsed to do even that, why exactly should SH promote it over another song? Its not like every song can get activated instantly out of some kind of excessive largesse, but there is an easy path for the community to come together to work to unlock the songs that more often than not people care about, if people were to act in stead of complaing. Or: complain then use that to motivate yourself to ACT. (plus SH historically has always been the best when we pull together).
And its all jsut fake plastic instruments (one big mostly happy family), gh3 and gha are both awesome games and can be had for very very cheap these days ($10 or less) used at gamestop/etc, (or gamefly it for a weekend), i dont buy any variation of the 'us poor rock band players have no way to get points other than spending money' argument, because i deny the supressed premise of their existing 'rock band players' as some form of immutable quantity - for people who are seriously thinking this, stop being a snob or grow a sack and start narrowing on GH2-360 (this is a fun challenge), thats a hmx game.
*lets see, 444 proofs, average song length about 4 minutes lets say. 200 or so of my proofs were done on gh2/gh80s with no no fail, so lets say 6 runs on average to get those (counting failed runs) = 4*200*6= ~80 hours. the other 250 were done for gh3 and gha, so lets assume 2.5 runs per song there on average = 4*250*2.5= ~42 hours. add in an extra 5 or more hours hosting hte photos, and entering all that data into sh system, and you get roughly 125 hours to get, as you say, an 'absurdly ridiculous' number of points
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Watching her, these things she said / "Time," she cried "failed to wait, this time"
***
Hush now / Let it go now / I know it's time to go / Time to let this fall / From my hands |
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BigZ7337
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 2022
Location: Williamsport, PA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Barfo wrote: |
YOU are missing the point, DUDE. I have absurd number of points because of the tens and probably hundred+ hours i put in doing proofing back in the day*. I'm not saying you need to put in that hundred+ hours like i did, i specifically ran the numbers and pointed out that even if people with zero points right now, instead of whinging got off their ass and spent a few hours doing some narrowing/proofs (of GH3 and GHA songs on their console of choice, both of those have no fail so its not too hard) theyd have enough points to contribute as a factor in getting several songs they wanted activated. if a song doesn't have 10 or 20 people who can be arsed to do even that, why exactly should SH promote it over another song? Its not like every song can get activated instantly out of some kind of excessive largess, but there is an easy path for the community to come together to work to unlock the songs that more often than not people care about, if people were to act in stead of complaining. Or: complain then use that to motivate yourself to ACT. (plus SH historically has always been the best when we pull together).
And its all just fake plastic instruments (one big mostly happy family), gh3 and gha are both awesome games and can be had for very very cheap these days ($10 or less) used at gamestop/etc, (or gamefly it for a weekend), I don't buy any variation of the 'us poor rock band players have no way to get points other than spending money' argument, because i deny the suppressed premise of their existing 'rock band players' as some form of immutable quantity - for people who are seriously thinking this, stop being a snob or grow a sack and start narrowing on GH2-360 (this is a fun challenge), thats a hmx game.
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You should maybe take a chill pill. My argument and others are still valid. I'd much rather be playing my RBN songs I bought or reviewing future songs (maybe playtesters could get points for testing Rhythm Author songs?) than play old games that I didn't like the first time around. GH3 was ok, but GHA sucked in my opinion. I have no reason, nor would I want, to play either of those games. At the same time, you would have to do a lot of work to even come close to having one song added to the store. 250 points is just way too high.
Also, I'm not a poor Rock Band player, I'm a DLC whore for Christ's sake! Most of my gaming money usually goes to buying new songs, something I'm sure Rhythm Gamers wants me to keep doing. And wtf was up with growing a sack? That doesn't make any sense, it's immature, and the points being brought up are valid concerns.
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Last edited by BigZ7337 on Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blingdomepiece 
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 4358
Location: Ottawa ON Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think when you consider the original plan was to only put RA tracks up, the potential to put other tracks up as well is an improvement and we should be happy about that.
I do agree that 250 points is a lot. If I donate another $50, I get 40% of the points I need to activate a single song. Even if there are 41,000 points out there unspent (I guess nobody else around here wants to have more than 3 songs in the DB at a time?), a lot of those points may exist in inactive accounts or people who don't use the RBN.
That said, while I *think* 250 points is a lot, that doesn't mean it is so. I think realistically if we see songs are very slow to activate, that should hopefully be a sign to the powers that be that the threshold ought to be lower. If songs activate reasonably often, then there isn't a problem.
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JizzleWright
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 205
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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None of the songs I want to enter a score for have been activated
I think this is a good way to encourage people to start donating and provide cutoffs, (it did for me, i just dusted off my copy of GHA  ) but i think it would be better to let users prove cutoffs for later games (Especially rock band as that is what this is all for :P) |
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Celeles
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Skaville, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Barfo wrote: | | Celeles wrote: | | I think you missed the point, dude. It's easy to say that getting points is no problem when you're one of the guys with an absurdly ridiculous amount of points. Kinda like a multi-millionare not getting why people are complaining about the price of college, etc. |
YOU are missing the point, DUDE. I have absurd number of points because of the tens and probably hundred+ hours i put in doing proofing back in the day*. Im not saying you need to put in that hundred+ hours like i did, i specifically ran the numbers and pointed out that even if people with zero points right now, instead of whinging got off their ass and spent a few hours doing some narrowing/proofs (of GH3 and GHA songs on their console of choice, both of htose have no fail so its not too hard) theyd have enough points to contribute as a factor in getting several songs they wanted activated. if a song doesnt have 10 or 20 people who can be arsed to do even that, why exactly should SH promote it over another song? Its not like every song can get activated instantly out of some kind of excessive largesse, but there is an easy path for the community to come together to work to unlock the songs that more often than not people care about, if people were to act in stead of complaing. Or: complain then use that to motivate yourself to ACT. (plus SH historically has always been the best when we pull together).
And its all jsut fake plastic instruments (one big mostly happy family), gh3 and gha are both awesome games and can be had for very very cheap these days ($10 or less) used at gamestop/etc, (or gamefly it for a weekend), i dont buy any variation of the 'us poor rock band players have no way to get points other than spending money' argument, because i deny the supressed premise of their existing 'rock band players' as some form of immutable quantity - for people who are seriously thinking this, stop being a snob or grow a sack and start narrowing on GH2-360 (this is a fun challenge), thats a hmx game.
*lets see, 444 proofs, average song length about 4 minutes lets say. 200 or so of my proofs were done on gh2/gh80s with no no fail, so lets say 6 runs on average to get those (counting failed runs) = 4*200*6= ~80 hours. the other 250 were done for gh3 and gha, so lets assume 2.5 runs per song there on average = 4*250*2.5= ~42 hours. add in an extra 5 or more hours hosting hte photos, and entering all that data into sh system, and you get roughly 125 hours to get, as you say, an 'absurdly ridiculous' number of points |
Sorry if I offended you at all, wasn't trying to start any kind of personal attack (comparing you to a jaded millionare was kind of dick in retrospect and I apologize). You ARE right in saying that people could work and get some points through doing proofs, and I do understand that if you contribute anywhere near to the point in which you did you definitely deserve a louder voice in this whole process. I for one am not actually trying to complain, per-say, as, like I said before, it's ultimately up to the owners/runners of scorehero, and anyone can just track on Rockband.com if they really have a problem with the system. I'm simply trying to give feedback, which is what I'm assuming they were looking for in posting this thread to at least some extent. I don't think it's the best way to go about things, and apparently neither do a lot of other people.
I simply find it a little bit off that some people will have absolutely not say in this process whatsoever. Yes, you could spend a few hours doing proofs to gain points, but that's assuming that you have a camera and the knowledge to accurately and efficiently go about getting said proofs. Some people have neither, and some people don't even know what the hell a proof is. Assuming both things are true, does such a person deserve absolutely no say in the enabling process whatsoever? I guess they could always pay for points, but even that is assuming that they have access to a paypal account and/or credit card.
I'm also not saying this idea should be thrown out all together. There are plenty of suggestions both I and others have pointed out, such as providing alternative methods for obtaining points or lowering the cutoff for enabling a song. This is by NO MEANS a bad idea, I simply believe it could be executed in a slightly more balanced manner.
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IndestructibleSD
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 1382
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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I understand that you wish to maintain some advantage to your clients, but it seems a bit ridiculous to base the addition of songs to SH solely off of contribution points.
There are plenty of intelligent and helpful posters who haven't donated money to SH and also aren't proofers. Why should they not have a way of getting their favorite songs added to the SH leaderboards? They contribute to the Scorehero community every day, it's just not in a mathematical or monetary manner.
And Barfo, I tend to agree with you, but I actually don't here.
Yes, the age old argument of "Oh I don't have enough money to buy a $10 dollar game" is annoying and I understand why it would irk you, because it reeks of laziness; however, why should members of the Rock Band side of Scorehero have to go buy a game from the Guitar Hero franchise and establish proofs to further expand the songs they can submit scores to on the Rock Band side of Scorehero? It seems rather silly to use that in your argument supporting this new system.
I understand that Rock Band players and Guitar Hero players aren't mutually exclusive, but there are those who stick to one side of the fence, and we needn't be restricted from features because the means of getting contribution points are few. (without buying a GH game as Barfo suggested)
In short, if this system is going to stand, ways other than buying Guitar Hero games or donating money need to be established as a means of obtaining contribution points.
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