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NGJ
Joined: 01 Jun 2008 Posts: 224
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Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: Hardest full-band pass? |
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Here are my personal 20 candidates, in my opinion and in no particular order.
Constant Motion
Visions
Prequel to the Sequel
Thrasher
Satch Boogie
Panic Attack
Sleepwalker
Young Man Blues
Good Mourning/Black Friday
What a Horrible Night to Have a Curse
They're Red Hot
Rude Mood
Conquer All
Painkiller
My Last Words
Blackened
Devil's Island
Caprici di Diablo
Run to the Hills
Shoulder to the Plow
If anyone else has any other ideas, just post, or discuss. |
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Rapstah
Joined: 01 May 2008 Posts: 868
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Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Let Hammer Smashed Face take Constant Motion's spot, I've GS'd Constant Motion in random online band quick play and let's just say that's not happened with the former. _________________
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Auriscope
Joined: 29 Nov 2007 Posts: 1402
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:26 am Post subject: |
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I think Sleepwalker is truest to what you want. Sure, What A Horrible Night to Have a Curse and Satch Boogie are harder just because you need a god drummer or guitarist respectively, but Sleepwalker is very failable on every instrument. Vocalists will struggle on Sleepwalker (unlike every Mayhem song >_>), the drum polyrhythm is very hard if you aren't used to it, the guitar line is very blatantly plagued with triplets, and finally the bass is no pushover.
This is similar to the whole "Hardest Voxtar FC". Of course Thrasher, Constant Motion, and the strumming songs are really hard solely because of the guitar part. However, a song like I Get By or Sleepwalker is more 'difficult' in the sense that one will struggle with doing tricky vocals and guitar simultaneously. _________________
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OCEAT
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 357 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:57 am Post subject: |
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IMO, a WaHNtHaC is as hard a pass solo as it is full band. If you had a platinum drummer who could FC a good chunk of all songs (40%?), if he can't hit those blasts, the whole group is done. One mistake and it's over; only two more tries. There's always the option of waiting until the last moment to rez, but unless it's a very hack pass, it's not a pass at all. _________________
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. – Anonymous
What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. – Christopher Hitchens |
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RedSharkGuy
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: Indianapolis
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:11 am Post subject: |
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I would definitely have to go with What a Horrible Night to Have a Curse.
It takes damn near the top echelon of drummers to even pass this song, and I could see even a pretty decent expert drummer failing all three times before being able to finish the song as a band.
Next toughest is probably Visions due to the difficulty on everything but vocals, and the difficulty in hitting most of the overdrive.
My Last Words gets an honorable mention though; the main riff is punishing on guitar, some of the drum overdrive isn't easy to get, and the same part that usually drags the drummer down (the fast roll) is where the guitarist loses ground (strumming). Both of those fail out, and the bassist has very little time to act.
Sleepwalker gets into the discussion as well because while the drums and bass are really only moderately difficult to "decent" expert players, the guitar does go [more] insane at a part where the bassline and drumline are also at some tough parts. The vocals being no pushover doesn't help here either.
1. What a Horrible Night to Have a Curse
2. Visions
3. My Last Words
4. Sleepwalker
There's three things that'll make a song hard for a band to pass:
1. The difficulty on one instrument is so over the top that it's likely that even a decent expert player will fail all three possible times
2. Scarcity and/or difficulty of getting overdrive during an already-difficult song.
3. Songs where the toughest parts of more than one instrument coincide. _________________
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Nalk
Joined: 27 Jun 2008 Posts: 260 Location: Troy, NY / Hillsboro OR
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:52 am Post subject: |
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The only song I've tried that I've never passed in full band is "No Hassle Night". Granted, I haven't tried any of the mayhem pack or some of the others on that list, but I've passed about half of those in a full band (including an amazing 2-star of They're Red Hot on sightread) |
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Olphius
Joined: 12 Oct 2008 Posts: 275 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:31 am Post subject: |
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RedSharkGuy wrote: | I would definitely have to go with What a Horrible Night to Have a Curse.
It takes damn near the top echelon of drummers to even pass this song, and I could see even a pretty decent expert drummer failing all three times before being able to finish the song as a band. |
I totally disagree, the drum part being the only really hard instrument for this song doesn't make it the hardest to pass, unless creative overdrive use doesn't count. Providing you can't play the verses, which are short and can be passed playing none of the double bass, and you fail in the first blast, you can wait until after the blasts are over to bring back the failed drummer, who then has a veritable cakewalk until the next set of blasts when you can do the exact same thing. Shoot, if you're even moderately competent at double bass, you can save your overdrive for the blasts and so long as you can keep bass+blue going under overdrive, you're set. I've passed the song with just one other person, and you can check my scores, I'm nowhere near the top echelon. Add in bass and vocals who can activate separately to keep you alive, and I bet you wouldn't have to search as far as you think to find someone who can pass the song without even failing.
Nah, to answer the question I'd have to say Visions, outside of vocals it's just balls hard on everything, and the OD phrases aren't that easy to hit. I can't accurately say a word on sleepwalker, I was good at polyrythms before I ever played the song, and have never played guitar or bass. _________________
Eagerly awaiting the next DLC announcement thread so I can post my latest +1 postcount comment. |
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wambafat
Joined: 14 Feb 2007 Posts: 183
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Olphius wrote: | RedSharkGuy wrote: | I would definitely have to go with What a Horrible Night to Have a Curse.
It takes damn near the top echelon of drummers to even pass this song, and I could see even a pretty decent expert drummer failing all three times before being able to finish the song as a band. |
I totally disagree, the drum part being the only really hard instrument for this song doesn't make it the hardest to pass, unless creative overdrive use doesn't count. Providing you can't play the verses, which are short and can be passed playing none of the double bass, and you fail in the first blast, you can wait until after the blasts are over to bring back the failed drummer, who then has a veritable cakewalk until the next set of blasts when you can do the exact same thing. Shoot, if you're even moderately competent at double bass, you can save your overdrive for the blasts and so long as you can keep bass+blue going under overdrive, you're set. I've passed the song with just one other person, and you can check my scores, I'm nowhere near the top echelon. Add in bass and vocals who can activate separately to keep you alive, and I bet you wouldn't have to search as far as you think to find someone who can pass the song without even failing.
Nah, to answer the question I'd have to say Visions, outside of vocals it's just balls hard on everything, and the OD phrases aren't that easy to hit. I can't accurately say a word on sleepwalker, I was good at polyrythms before I ever played the song, and have never played guitar or bass. | ... what. The verse and chorus in What a horrible night are far from a cake walk, the verse is fucking brutal to anyone whos not good at double bass, and the speed of the bass pedal in the chorus will murder combos keeping your drummer at a low rock meter. |
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Olphius
Joined: 12 Oct 2008 Posts: 275 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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wambafat wrote: | Olphius wrote: | RedSharkGuy wrote: | I would definitely have to go with What a Horrible Night to Have a Curse.
It takes damn near the top echelon of drummers to even pass this song, and I could see even a pretty decent expert drummer failing all three times before being able to finish the song as a band. |
I totally disagree, the drum part being the only really hard instrument for this song doesn't make it the hardest to pass, unless creative overdrive use doesn't count. Providing you can't play the verses, which are short and can be passed playing none of the double bass, and you fail in the first blast, you can wait until after the blasts are over to bring back the failed drummer, who then has a veritable cakewalk until the next set of blasts when you can do the exact same thing. Shoot, if you're even moderately competent at double bass, you can save your overdrive for the blasts and so long as you can keep bass+blue going under overdrive, you're set. I've passed the song with just one other person, and you can check my scores, I'm nowhere near the top echelon. Add in bass and vocals who can activate separately to keep you alive, and I bet you wouldn't have to search as far as you think to find someone who can pass the song without even failing.
Nah, to answer the question I'd have to say Visions, outside of vocals it's just balls hard on everything, and the OD phrases aren't that easy to hit. I can't accurately say a word on sleepwalker, I was good at polyrythms before I ever played the song, and have never played guitar or bass. | ... what. The verse and chorus in What a horrible night are far from a cake walk, the verse is fucking brutal to anyone whos not good at double bass, and the speed of the bass pedal in the chorus will murder combos keeping your drummer at a low rock meter. |
You can pass the verse playing only one of the two bass hits charted by yourself. Add in one of potentially 3 others with overdrive and you won't drop below full. Sure, the double bass in the chorus is fast, but it's not hard, and if you're playing with only one pedal, then you're just asking to fail the song. I stand by what I said earlier. _________________
Eagerly awaiting the next DLC announcement thread so I can post my latest +1 postcount comment. |
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internetguy87
Joined: 27 Mar 2008 Posts: 3505 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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A few comments. If we are allowing fails and revives then Prequel to the Sequel doesn't deserve to be on this list. The vocals are gimmes and bass and guitar aren't that bad, so saving the drummer is easy. There is only one "tough" part to the song and it only lasts 20-30 seconds.
I think Bad Omen was a poor omission from your list. It is just as bad as some of the other Megadeth songs listed. Also, maybe YYZ deserves a mention? Very confusing to some drummers and the bass and guitar parts are not gimmes to stock up on OD. _________________
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OCEAT
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 357 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to have to disagree with Visions being as hard as it's made out to be.
For the drums, if the drummer is a solid expert player, there should be no problem passing. Get the first OD phrase (and possible UB) and save it for the first set of "easy" blasts, and then hoard OD to save/keep alive during the "hard" blasts.
For vocals, just yell and use OD when bandmates need it.
For guitar, it's hard but not THAT hard. The only part I ever came close to failing during my first few tries was at the bridge, I think, with the fast green strumming and sweeps. Even then, there's help in the form of OD from multiple sources.
Bass is the big killer. For an okay expert player, this song is murder alone; however, with a competent band, you should be able to half-ass most of it. Try staying with your index finger on the green, or only hitting the RYBs of the sweeps. If you get OD, hoard it. If you don't, get your bandmates to help.
If no one activates at the same time, there should be plenty of OD to go around, enough at least to get everyone through. You might get 3.2 stars, but a pass is a pass, and IMO this is overrated. _________________
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. – Anonymous
What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. – Christopher Hitchens |
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orangeglacier
Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 396 Location: Concord, MA
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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OCEAT wrote: | I'm going to have to disagree with Visions being as hard as it's made out to be.
For the drums, if the drummer is a solid expert player, there should be no problem passing. Get the first OD phrase (and possible UB) and save it for the first set of "easy" blasts, and then hoard OD to save/keep alive during the "hard" blasts.
For vocals, just yell and use OD when bandmates need it.
For guitar, it's hard but not THAT hard. The only part I ever came close to failing during my first few tries was at the bridge, I think, with the fast green strumming and sweeps. Even then, there's help in the form of OD from multiple sources.
Bass is the big killer. For an okay expert player, this song is murder alone; however, with a competent band, you should be able to half-ass most of it. Try staying with your index finger on the green, or only hitting the RYBs of the sweeps. If you get OD, hoard it. If you don't, get your bandmates to help.
If no one activates at the same time, there should be plenty of OD to go around, enough at least to get everyone through. You might get 3.2 stars, but a pass is a pass, and IMO this is overrated. |
Yeah, but usually, the bassist is worse than the guitarist, so even if they switch, he's probably not going to be able to pass that crazy guitar part. And a lot of the OD phrases are really hard to hit on any instrument, let alone with a unison bonus - and it's definitely not the 'average player' who can beat it on drums. _________________
Goals: FC half of RB2 and GH5 on expert drums
GH5 (30/43)(Gamma Ray latest)
RB2 (39/42)(Souls of Black latest) |
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BMS
Joined: 27 Oct 2009 Posts: 260
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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orangeglacier wrote: | OCEAT wrote: | I'm going to have to disagree with Visions being as hard as it's made out to be.
For the drums, if the drummer is a solid expert player, there should be no problem passing. Get the first OD phrase (and possible UB) and save it for the first set of "easy" blasts, and then hoard OD to save/keep alive during the "hard" blasts.
For vocals, just yell and use OD when bandmates need it.
For guitar, it's hard but not THAT hard. The only part I ever came close to failing during my first few tries was at the bridge, I think, with the fast green strumming and sweeps. Even then, there's help in the form of OD from multiple sources.
Bass is the big killer. For an okay expert player, this song is murder alone; however, with a competent band, you should be able to half-ass most of it. Try staying with your index finger on the green, or only hitting the RYBs of the sweeps. If you get OD, hoard it. If you don't, get your bandmates to help.
If no one activates at the same time, there should be plenty of OD to go around, enough at least to get everyone through. You might get 3.2 stars, but a pass is a pass, and IMO this is overrated. |
Yeah, but usually, the bassist is worse than the guitarist, so even if they switch, he's probably not going to be able to pass that crazy guitar part. And a lot of the OD phrases are really hard to hit on any instrument, let alone with a unison bonus - and it's definitely not the 'average player' who can beat it on drums. |
Yeah, as an average bassist, Visions is one of the two on-disc songs I can't pass (the other being Panic Attack, and if I got better at the main riff I could probably do that either solo or at the very least in BQP). 16% seems to be my usual fail point... yes, I suck. Even so, though, the guitar part, while easier, is no slouch either, and while I could possibly pass that with practice, I haven't tried the guitar part recently, so I wouldn't know. Not only that, but there's no argument that Visions is the hardest on-disc song to pass for drums. In any case, the only really "easy" OD phrases to hit is the very first one in the song and the ones during the break. You can argue that the vocalist can save people, but the vocalist only gets like 8 OD phrases with not a lot of room to activate, so while the vocalist helps, he can't save the band on his own.
In other news, I think that it would be a good idea to clarify whether we're arguing for the hardest to pass without anyone failing or the hardest to pass with failing/reviving. In the latter, a song like Sleepwalker that's difficult for everyone would be harder than, say, WaHNtHaC, while if we were arguing for the former, Satch Boogie and WaHNtHaC would probably be harder. |
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RedSharkGuy
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: Indianapolis
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Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Rude Mood might be another one to think about too, it's arguably one of the top few (IMO #1) hardest bass songs, a very tough guitar song, and drums are tiring. _________________
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Rawrspoon
Joined: 04 Sep 2008 Posts: 1597
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Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thread title: Hardest full-band PASS
This implies for most people.
As in non-scorehero-tier people.
Hell, even for scorehero, WAHNTHAC is the hardest, hands down. If you think it isn't, get a full-band and YOU play drums (as long as you can barely pass every song on RB2).
Seriously. |
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