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Drums and squeezing?
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disquette  
 




Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: To take it further Reply with quote

someguy913 wrote:
Whitespace wrote:
this sounds like bad news to the legit players out there.


Indeed it does. When I first played with the drum OD system, I was thinking "Thank God! Set activation points! Now I don't have to worry about all that ridiculous and tedious squeezing crap like on Guitar Hero." But no, now the scores on all of the easy to intermediate songs will be decided by who can best exploit the timing window and cram in the most phantom notes. *sigh*


A patch from Harmonix probably *could* remove this, but it would involve a massive overhaul to the game, based on what the harmonix dude wrote, and how we're figuring it works. I think in video games, the moral of the story is - if you can exploit it, it will be exploited, no matter how difficult it is
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powahouse  
 




Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 1145
Location: Wyandotte, MI

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: To take it further Reply with quote

someguy913 wrote:
Whitespace wrote:
this sounds like bad news to the legit players out there.


Indeed it does. When I first played with the drum OD system, I was thinking "Thank God! Set activation points! Now I don't have to worry about all that ridiculous and tedious squeezing crap like on Guitar Hero." But no, now the scores on all of the easy to intermediate songs will be decided by who can best exploit the timing window and cram in the most phantom notes. *sigh*


my thoughts exactly. too bad.

i thought it wasn't so complicated at first...simply hit the pedal with the crash at the end of a fill, but i keep forgetting that you also need to be a genius to win at these games.
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someguy913  
 




Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 970
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've hit upon a possible new (or at least unreported) discovery in drums squeezing: squeezing caps or limits.

When playing 29 Fingers for the league last week, I tried to squeeze every note possible. Some fill sections ended on what would have been a blue note, but two of them ended on sections that would have been both a blue and red note. Seeing this in the note chart, I hit the green pad early to activate then immediate hit the red and blue drums, as VH similarly suggested for ITIP. In my previous runs I had only been squeezing the blue note, with a final score of 94,475 with a 772 note streak.

Here's the thing: the extra two notes I squeezed in the next run showed up in my note streak, but not in my score. I got the exact same score (94,475) squeezing B+R as I did when squeezing just B, but I got a 774 note streak. So, the game definitely recognizes that I hit more notes, but it did not add them to my score! (For clarification, I did use the exact same OD path every run)

So, does this mean it's only possible to squeeze in (or rather, get credit for) one "phantom note" per activation? Or has someone (VH, I'm looking at you ) gotten the score for multiple phantom notes in a single activation in a different song, and the cap is song specific? Because I've had a similar experience with Maps and Reptilia.

Sorry about the long post, I just thought this was noteworthy.
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laconic  
 




Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 243
Location: Saint Peters, MO

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems to be a small delay in the end of the fill and the start of the overdrive. It's possible to get either 100 ot 200 points for the phantom notes depending on when you hit them. For instance, people who squeeze by trying to hit the kick at the same time as ending the fill only get 100 for the kick. Though my test on hitting the green gave me 200.

I'll try a few runs to see if I can pull off 400 from two phantom notes. I'm sure it doesn't get as complicated as you're thinking, otherwise they probably would have noticed the issue and fixed the phantom notes.
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violinhero86  
 




Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 376
Location: Brown University - Providence, RI

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, keep in mind that there's squeezing on the other end, too. I haven't tried this on 29 Fingers, but it's possible that overdrive runs out right on certain notes, and you would have to hit those early.

I know that for I Think I'm Paranoid I got the extra points for both green and bass when they were simultaneous phantom notes. I also know that it took me multiple tries to get the max score on I Think I'm Paranoid because sometimes the phantom notes didn't get the OD bonus and sometimes the notes at the very end of the activation didn't get the OD bonus.

If you get the same score multiple times doing the exact same thing, then I think you might be on to something, but considering that Harmonix didn't even know about drum squeezing until we found it, I doubt they would have put a cap on it. ;-)

I'd test it out personally on 29 Fingers, but my roommates have grown weary of me playing the drums. :-(
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someguy913  
 




Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think they would have intentionally capped it, but it could just be a glitch within a glitch. Then again, I'm not programmer, so I probably don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

Yeah, it might just be coincidence that I got the same score both runs, and I just happened to get the right combination of notes in and out of OD. Oh well...
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Rizzo  
 




Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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Location: Allen, TX

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this squeezing thing is stupid but is it just hitting the bass note + the green on your activation cuz thats what i did on ITIP while FCing it and im tied for 23rd...how does the first place guy have like 15000 more points...thats gotta be entered in wrong or something

squeezing is just unfair and stupid, it just screws up the leaderboards...it should be based off FC and OD path not hidden notes under the fills

BS!!!!!
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ajanata  
 




Joined: 07 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's abusing the game engine in the same way guitar parts have been squeezed for over two years now. Get used to it.

I realize there are no phantom notes in guitar parts but it's the same general principle -- take as much advantage of the game engine as possible to get the most parts. It's just a lot harder to do on drums.
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someguy913  
 




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajanata wrote:
take as much advantage of the game engine as possible to get the most parts. It's just a lot harder to do on drums.


Maybe it's just me, but I'm 100 times better at squeezing on drums after a few weeks of tinkering than I ever was at guitar.
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Rizzo  
 




Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im just mad cuz i dont know how to do it right....



but theres no way the guy got 20k more than everyone on ITIP, thats gotta be a lie
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GurnKiller  
 




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rizzo wrote:
but theres no way the guy got 20k more than everyone on ITIP, thats gotta be a lie


There's no way that score is correct. I've sent a PM to a mod asking to have it removed.
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ajanata  
 




Joined: 07 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, harder in that you don't see the notes on the screen.
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laconic  
 




Joined: 24 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can get more than 200 points from a squeeze of the phantom notes. You can squeeze both ends at once. I was playing ITIP (medium), and on the first fill, I pulled 400 from the phantom notes (200 for kick, 200 for green). I also extended the end of the OD to squeeze in two more notes into the OD (another 200 points).

This give me a guess of a max score on ITIP (medium) of 98,875 using the OD path 1-1-2. Unfortunately I didn't squeeze the other two OD properly.

If anyone wants it I can put up a video of the first OD.


Last edited by laconic on Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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EarthVsMatt  
 




Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

someguy913 wrote:
ajanata wrote:
take as much advantage of the game engine as possible to get the most parts. It's just a lot harder to do on drums.


Maybe it's just me, but I'm 100 times better at squeezing on drums after a few weeks of tinkering than I ever was at guitar.


Me too!

I think I'm doing squeezing correct, just hit the OD and always hit the bass at the end note?

Amirite?
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Slowhand  
 




Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leave it to Scorehero to figure out how to get a tick..........

Thanks for this explaination. It is what it is.

Not a fan of drum squeezes. Rant on. For once I'd like to see playing the song perfectly was actually good enough. Rant off. Just my little pet peeve. I'd love to see it removed for RB2. Patching this game is not a good idea, leave the exploit in.

But if someone is willing to put the time and redos into getting all squeezes for the top score, kudos, you certainly worked harder for it than I did.
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