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Above "Optimal" Index: 7/31/10: 7 New Songs! All Finished!!
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sokushi  
 




Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 599
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beingmused wrote:
sokushi wrote:
Even on songs that have a higher optimal score in Score Duel then in solo play, such as Spoonman? If it is allowed then I think that should change.


I don't think anyone has really exploited it. But since it is allowed with BNS to get higher scores than non-BNS in some cases (and vice versa), why wouldn't this be legit too?


Is there any way to play Score Duel by yourself besides having two drum kits? If there isn't then it doesn't seem right that some people (people with multiple kits) could sit there and grind a song while others couldn't. I suppose you could Score Duel a friend, but who says they want to sit there while you grind for an FC? That is really my only problem with it unless I'm overlooking a way where you can play Score Duel by yourself with just one kit. For the S10 leagues it was ruled that I wasn't allowed to submit a Spoonman Score Duel score because of this, but I never heard of any official ruling about submitting for the leaderboards.
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Kawigi  
 




Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 2876
Location: Redmond, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the1and0nly1 wrote:
oobitydoo wrote:
I can confirm that the glitch is still there in FP/LT...overhit the first OD and then squeeze and somehow get 1/2 bar instead of 1/4 from under a fill. I use that glitch any time I miss one of the first OD phrases, lol.
I don't remember the rest of the path, I think it was all immediate though.


Ok... I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Can you explain what you mean about overhitting the first OD and then squeezing to get 1/2 bar?


For some reason, if you have an OD phrase that starts before a fill and ends on the last note under the fill (the notes you'd squeeze if you were squeezing), the game gives you the OD twice (giving you half a bar). If you get to that point with 3/4 bar of OD, it doesn't really matter (because you'd overfill anyways), but if you are activating on that fill with half a bar of OD (like if you missed one of the first two OD phrases in FP/LT and then skipped a fill), then you'd start the activation with full OD instead of 3/4 OD. Doing this is also part of the optimal path of Interstate Love Song (which is demonstrated by a video Constable made quite awhile ago, might still be on youtube).
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the1and0nly1  
 




Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 996

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawigi wrote:
the1and0nly1 wrote:
oobitydoo wrote:
I can confirm that the glitch is still there in FP/LT...overhit the first OD and then squeeze and somehow get 1/2 bar instead of 1/4 from under a fill. I use that glitch any time I miss one of the first OD phrases, lol.
I don't remember the rest of the path, I think it was all immediate though.


Ok... I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Can you explain what you mean about overhitting the first OD and then squeezing to get 1/2 bar?


For some reason, if you have an OD phrase that starts before a fill and ends on the last note under the fill (the notes you'd squeeze if you were squeezing), the game gives you the OD twice (giving you half a bar). If you get to that point with 3/4 bar of OD, it doesn't really matter (because you'd overfill anyways), but if you are activating on that fill with half a bar of OD (like if you missed one of the first two OD phrases in FP/LT and then skipped a fill), then you'd start the activation with full OD instead of 3/4 OD. Doing this is also part of the optimal path of Interstate Love Song (which is demonstrated by a video Constable made quite awhile ago, might still be on youtube).


You have this accounted for on your site for Interstate Love Song. Do you account for this on every song that this situation happens in?
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BeeEmDubya  
 




Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone doesn't need to be able to "grind" for it with two drumsets. Someone can just get a random song and luckily happen to get a higher than normal FC.

Regardless, score duel scores should not be allowed. People have over 700 songs in some cases, so trying to go for an optimal score by sitting there and hoping to get lucky in score duel is ridiculous. Even in the non-ranked score duels where you can choose the song it's not fair. Career score is about solo achievements, and doing non-ranked score duels always requires a second person. It's basically a "team effort."

I got Give it All in a score duel and ended up setting a new personal high score because of the fill locations changing. How pissed off would the community be if I would have happened to FC it instead of still missing a few times? There would be 30 people tied at 2nd place with me 1400 points higher or something. That doesn't seem right.
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Kawigi  
 




Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the1and0nly1 wrote:
Kawigi wrote:
the1and0nly1 wrote:
oobitydoo wrote:
I can confirm that the glitch is still there in FP/LT...overhit the first OD and then squeeze and somehow get 1/2 bar instead of 1/4 from under a fill. I use that glitch any time I miss one of the first OD phrases, lol.
I don't remember the rest of the path, I think it was all immediate though.


Ok... I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Can you explain what you mean about overhitting the first OD and then squeezing to get 1/2 bar?


For some reason, if you have an OD phrase that starts before a fill and ends on the last note under the fill (the notes you'd squeeze if you were squeezing), the game gives you the OD twice (giving you half a bar). If you get to that point with 3/4 bar of OD, it doesn't really matter (because you'd overfill anyways), but if you are activating on that fill with half a bar of OD (like if you missed one of the first two OD phrases in FP/LT and then skipped a fill), then you'd start the activation with full OD instead of 3/4 OD. Doing this is also part of the optimal path of Interstate Love Song (which is demonstrated by a video Constable made quite awhile ago, might still be on youtube).


You have this accounted for on your site for Interstate Love Song. Do you account for this on every song that this situation happens in?


Yes, assuming I understand correctly when it happens :-)
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Yusuke  
 




Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 1663

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sokushi wrote:
beingmused wrote:
sokushi wrote:
Even on songs that have a higher optimal score in Score Duel then in solo play, such as Spoonman? If it is allowed then I think that should change.


I don't think anyone has really exploited it. But since it is allowed with BNS to get higher scores than non-BNS in some cases (and vice versa), why wouldn't this be legit too?


Is there any way to play Score Duel by yourself besides having two drum kits? If there isn't then it doesn't seem right that some people (people with multiple kits) could sit there and grind a song while others couldn't. I suppose you could Score Duel a friend, but who says they want to sit there while you grind for an FC? That is really my only problem with it unless I'm overlooking a way where you can play Score Duel by yourself with just one kit. For the S10 leagues it was ruled that I wasn't allowed to submit a Spoonman Score Duel score because of this, but I never heard of any official ruling about submitting for the leaderboards.


Think about it this way. If you were to play in a Full Band and be the only instrument playing, you wouldnt be able to submit your score. It doesnt make any sense.

The mechanics of the game differ in the different modes (unfortunately) and score submission for 1-player scores is for SOLO mode.
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the1and0nly1  
 




Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 996

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have actually successfully pulled off the Attack "alternate" path so I know it's possible. I missed later on in the song though and didn't feel like going for it again.

Good luck to those who try!
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sokushi  
 




Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 599
Location: PA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the optimal score on Attack is 132275 with a 1104 NS since that is what I have gotten 3 times now. When I first checked the math I had the same score that you had up, but after 3 FCs I re-checked the math and I am coming up with the score and NS that I have listed above. Sweet path by the way.
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the1and0nly1  
 




Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 996

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sokushi wrote:
I think the optimal score on Attack is 132275 with a 1104 NS since that is what I have gotten 3 times now. When I first checked the math I had the same score that you had up, but after 3 FCs I re-checked the math and I am coming up with the score and NS that I have listed above. Sweet path by the way.


Thanks for letting me know. And nice job getting the path

As soon as I read your post, I knew exactly what I did: I counted the squeeze out note under OD. The 1,106 ns was from counting the first front end twice for some reason.

It was late last night when I found this

/excuses

(Now this song gets its 2nd smiley face)
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rrwoods  
 




Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 343

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawigi wrote:
the1and0nly1 wrote:
Kawigi wrote:
the1and0nly1 wrote:
oobitydoo wrote:
I can confirm that the glitch is still there in FP/LT...overhit the first OD and then squeeze and somehow get 1/2 bar instead of 1/4 from under a fill. I use that glitch any time I miss one of the first OD phrases, lol.
I don't remember the rest of the path, I think it was all immediate though.


Ok... I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Can you explain what you mean about overhitting the first OD and then squeezing to get 1/2 bar?


For some reason, if you have an OD phrase that starts before a fill and ends on the last note under the fill (the notes you'd squeeze if you were squeezing), the game gives you the OD twice (giving you half a bar). If you get to that point with 3/4 bar of OD, it doesn't really matter (because you'd overfill anyways), but if you are activating on that fill with half a bar of OD (like if you missed one of the first two OD phrases in FP/LT and then skipped a fill), then you'd start the activation with full OD instead of 3/4 OD. Doing this is also part of the optimal path of Interstate Love Song (which is demonstrated by a video Constable made quite awhile ago, might still be on youtube).


You have this accounted for on your site for Interstate Love Song. Do you account for this on every song that this situation happens in?


Yes, assuming I understand correctly when it happens :-)

Hmm, could you notate this in the path somehow?
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blingdomepiece  
 




Joined: 03 Aug 2007
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Location: Ottawa ON Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beingmused wrote:
THABEAST721 wrote:
beingmused wrote:
(and possibly Score Duel as well),


Score Duel scores don't count because they don't go on XBL I believe.


I believe that SH allows score duel scores


If so, this should change. The no-fail is as obvious a reason as any.
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the1and0nly1  
 




Joined: 03 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oobitydoo wrote:
Hmm, could you notate this in the path somehow?


I've checked about 90% of the songs for this (I'll finish within the next couple hours) and so far Interstate is the only song it happens in. It'll probably be more trouble to annotate this in the path than to just remember what happens for this song.
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the1and0nly1  
 




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the double post. But I just changed the OP around a bunch and added a whole new category to it.

Here's also a little of what's to come:

- List of all optimal paths after audio calibration manipulation (Thanks to eXcelon969 )
- List of all songs with double squeezing
- Completion of Miss Path list (I am about 70% done searching through the list of songs for these)
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sokushi  
 




Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 599
Location: PA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to say thanks for this thread! This is the type of stuff that I love to read about on SH, plus I'm sure this is a lot of hard work for you. I'll try some of these DSO paths tomorrow. I thought the Attack path was really easy so I'm curious to see how much harder these other paths will be.
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internetguy87  
 




Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 3505
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blingdomepiece wrote:
beingmused wrote:
THABEAST721 wrote:
beingmused wrote:
(and possibly Score Duel as well),


Score Duel scores don't count because they don't go on XBL I believe.


I believe that SH allows score duel scores


If so, this should change. The no-fail is as obvious a reason as any.


The fact is it is stated if you "would have" failed at any part in the song, you are not allowed to submit the score. I realize that this is definitely a honesty thing, but uhm, what stops me from putting no fail on and playing in solo and getting picture proof... It's the same exact thing =)
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