FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
RB1&2 Stratocasters Dissected (many big pics)
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ScoreHero Forum Index -> Hardware
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BriGuy  





Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1894
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: RB1&2 Stratocasters Dissected (many big pics) Reply with quote

In my ongoing quest to document the evolution of the Rock Band Stratocaster, I have created this resource for those who want to mod their guitars.
This have become increasingly difficult because as of today there are at least 5 distinct models that have significant differences.
Take a look here to aquaint yourself with the designs before modding your guitar.
Thank you to everyone who contributed to this project.

If you are looking for guitar repairs or modding ideas, click here for the Guitar Modding 101 guide.


Rock Band 2 Stratocaster Dissected



The Beatles Rock Band Gretsch Duo Jet Dissected



Here's a shot of the RB1 Stratocaster styled guitar controller.
It's a good looking nice big piece of hardware.


Whammy bars:

There is some variation in the whammy design. In addition to overall length, there are some
that hit the pick guard and may cause some noise and possibly damage to custom paint jobs or stickers.

Pick guard:

It's pretty much flat underneath with some grooves and round indents for the screw sleeves.
The most important thing to note here is that (on some models) it cannot be easily removed since some effects selector tips and cannot be removed without some surgery, although most tips can be pulled off with a bit of force.

Effects selector:


Shell differences:
The battery compartment:

The lower pic shows the 4th gen guitar model which has a different shell design.
It adds a small indentation to allow easier access to the battery case.


The 4th gen guitar also has smaller screws and narrower screw holes.


In the wired XBOX360 model, this vestigial organ is only there because of cross model production simplicity,
but it offers a built in power source for extra stuff like LEDs or something. Bonus!

1st gen strum bar- Tweezer style:


Here is a pic of the 1st gen strum mechanism looks like. It's got the somewhat problematic metal leaf contacts. Mine has a small gap
between the strum bar and the upstrum contact that I've corrected by adjusting the tension screw (light blue) (method described here)
A thin paper (or equivilant) shim (yellow) can be placed behind each metal leaf contact to make it more sensitive.
This shim can be supported by the screw right next to it.
Notice the placement of the wires over the strum bar that may or may not have caused problems. I have since moved the wires aside.
Also notice the hooks that are on the top and bottom of the strum bar with complimentary hooks above and below. These are an unused feature to stabilize the strum bar.
I haven't tried it yet, but 2 small rubber bands or springs may be attached at these spots to add extra tension and perhaps stop double strumming problems.
The tilt sensors in the 1st-3rd gen models are of the old school style of ball bearings in a tube (vs the ultrasensitive and non adjustable accelerometer of the GH X-Plorer and Les Paul)
When rolled around or shaken you may hear a rattling noise coming from these...this is normal. There are 2 here
to add a redundant factor to prevent false OD activations. The best part about these is it allows for fine tuning of the tilt angle!!!
See this thread for details: http://rockband.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=33795#33795

4th Gen tilt sensor:

This is a redesign of the tilt sensors which so far has positive feedback concerning required sensitivity.
If required, the sensitivity of these can be adjusted in a similar fasion to the other design.

Wireless tilt sensors:

If you are planning on adjust the tilt angles of these, be careful and support the 2 wires that go to them.

2nd Gen Strum bar (microswitches)

There is some variation in this design but it it uses microswitches similar to the ones on GH guitars.
You may notice a slight clicking when strumming this model.

3rd Gen strum bar (magnets contact switch)

This was inside one of the replacement guitars. It marks the introduction of their latest style of strum bar switch.
In this guitar, it is unsupported by the cage that is present in the 4th gen model.

Version 3.1

In this variation, you'll notice a few different things such as the plastic tube around the magnet contacts, a raised support structure
on the right side, and different model tilt sensors. You can also see the exposed support holes for the 1st gen tweezers.

4th Gen strum bar (magnet contact switch with support cage)

This is a rare and apparently abandoned design which has the magnet contact switches of v3 and adds a support cage around the whole thing. There are many other differences in the 4th gen guitar.

The d-pad and start/back circuit board:

There are two great features about this. Everything is so clearly labeled in case you wanted to solder onto these connections.
The letters BGSLURD stand for Back, Ground, Start, Left, Up, Right, and Down.
Also notice the extra contacts for Down and Up (and the unused J14/J15) These are unused on the board but they can be easily and separately
soldered onto for Killswitch type mods.

The neck:

Here is the dissected neck after the head has been snapped into place. The metal plate goes between the neck pieces.
*The only way the headstock can be removed is by taking the neck apart and removing the 2 flat bent metal holders on top and bottom (in blue)

The head:

This simply shows that the tuning nobs are connected on one piece and can be carefully pushed in and out its slot.

Main buttons - top (ver 1, 2, and 3):

These buttons can be pulled out from the side with a little bit of force.
This "meat" of the fret buttons slide into the sleeve and press in the microswitch button tops on the circuit board inside. The frets are pushed back up by the springs in the button contacts on the circuit board.

Main buttons - back (ver 1, 2 and 3)

The first button is pressed all the way in and the other two are in a neutral position. You can see that there is very little travel with these buttons and there is little or no room compared to the RB2 Strat to add the rubbery silencer strip.

The smaller solo buttons for all models are simply smaller versions of the main set.

4th Gen fret buttons:


This is a radically different design that is still as clicky as the other models. The fret buttons cannot be snapped off from the outside like the other models. The frets are a two piece design and the screws that hold them together also hold them in the neck.


This is how the buttons are wired together (v 1, 2, and 3):

There are separate leads for each set of 5 fret buttons and they share a common ground wire that runs down from the main button wire ribbon through the solo board. There are also designs on the wires (dots, dashes, etc) to keep track of which wire is which.

The wires all connect to the main circuitboard like this (v 1 and 3):

I colored them to correspond to the buttons they are wired to with the top set for the solo buttons. The black wire is the ground.

Version 4 fret button circuit boards.

What is interesting to note here is that the main button wires do not run directly to the main circuit board. They run into and out of the solo button's circuit board. This makes it very crowded and more difficult to mod.

Version 4 main circuit board:


Version 2 main circuit board:


As you can see there are a bunch of wildly different wiring configurations.
Double check your own wiring before modding anything!


It looks like the engineers have has a lot of fun building and tweaking their guitar to make it reliable.
Now it's your turn to take these tools and build something crazy!!

Good luck out there!!!


(F*** the warranty!)
_________________


Last edited by BriGuy on Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:39 pm; edited 38 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: zBriGuy
FrankieB  





Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 3413
Location: Lexington, KY

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, that is really impressive. Thanks for cracking that open and taking photos, as I want to see inside both of the guitars I have (I haven't sent out my faulty copy yet), but I only have a set of those really small screws that you get at Wal-Mart for $.80 cents. I have photos of the bottoms of the drum pads from both sets of designs. They are almost completely different..its weird. But thats another thread which I'll start up later tonight.

Question:

Do you see a feasible way to adjust that tilt sensor so that you'd really have to tilt it in order for Overdrive to activate? I tend to hold my guitar at an angle, and the game thinks that I am activating Overdrive all the time, so it usually goes off immediately.
_________________
Back in my day, guitars had buttons! And broken whammy bars!
----------
Become a Fan of Starpower on Facebook!
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message Visit poster's website XBL Gamertag: FRANK1E B
BriGuy  





Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1894
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FrankieB wrote:
Question:

Do you see a feasible way to adjust that tilt sensor so that you'd really have to tilt it in order for Overdrive to activate? I tend to hold my guitar at an angle, and the game thinks that I am activating Overdrive all the time, so it usually goes off immediately.

Yeah, thats what I've done in that pic with the duct tape. If you tilt the sensor assembly down like I did, you basically have to tilt it over 45 degrees or so before it triggers.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: zBriGuy
metasynthie  





Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 77
Location: New York, NY

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My tilt sensor is not sensitive enough, I have to tilt it all the way and kind of shake it to get it to register... I guess when I open it up (I need to fix my downstrum now too, after a week of it working...) I should maybe look into tilting it slightly the opposite direction of what you did? Is there any way I could tell if maybe I have a faulty tilt sensor, by how it rattles or something? Should it rattle after you tilt it past the correct point?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website XBL Gamertag: Metasynthie
BriGuy  





Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1894
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

metasynthie wrote:
My tilt sensor is not sensitive enough, I have to tilt it all the way and kind of shake it to get it to register... I guess when I open it up (I need to fix my downstrum now too, after a week of it working...) I should maybe look into tilting it slightly the opposite direction of what you did? Is there any way I could tell if maybe I have a faulty tilt sensor, by how it rattles or something? Should it rattle after you tilt it past the correct point?


It sounds like one of the tilt sensors is getting stuck and changing the angle of the sensor isn't gonna help. Since they are redundant, you can try to temporarily bypass one of them by connecting a bit of wire between the 2 wire posts of the sensor tube (I can get a pic later if you need it). After you bypass one of them, try the guitar out. If the problem is still there, remove that wire and bypass the other. If this fixes the problem, it will probably be very sensitive to tilting and you will probably have to tape it down like mine.
If this doesn't work, you can always install an overdrive button and/or just hit "back" to activate.
Good luck!
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: zBriGuy
KrookedT  





Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 154
Location: H-Tizzy, Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya I just wanna say thanks for doing this, not a lotta people would & I really wanted to see what it looked like without cracking mine open.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: Krooked T PSN Name: Krooked_T
BriGuy  





Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1894
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kais wrote:
My fender constantly rattles when I pick it up, any idea if it's suppost to be like that?


Well you do have a pair of glasses for your avatar, so I guess that answers my question of "are you blind?"
BriGuy wrote:
The tilt sensors are back to the old school style of ball bearings in a tube (vs the ultrasensitive and non adjustable accelerometer of the GH3 Les Paul) When rolled around or shaken you may hear a rattling noise coming from these...this is normal.



KrookedT wrote:
Ya I just wanna say thanks for doing this, not a lotta people would & I really wanted to see what it looked like without cracking mine open.


No problem. I love this stuff and I'd be doing it anyway, so why not take some pictures. I havent tackled the drum yet for modding, but I have plans in the works for both.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: zBriGuy
TehBanStick  





Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 2709

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:59 am    Post subject: Re: The Rock Band Stratocaster dissected Reply with quote

BriGuy wrote:
I haven't tried it yet, but 2 small rubber bands or springs may be attached at these spots to add extra tension and perhaps stop double strumming problems.

Been there, stabilized that.
Also, any tips for getting the effects switch's cap off?

_________________
Also known as Lord Zedd now
GH Customs | RB Customs | Youtube | Audition Mode Customs Guide
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message
pandemik  





Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. I opened up my strat the other day (also 360 version) and I found that there are no metal contacts. Instead, it has to smaller switches that the strum bar connects with:



It's still having the problem with downstrumming.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tamran  





Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good stuff. Thanks for letting us take a look.

Your pictures and explainations were the most straight forward I've read so far. It doesn't sound so scary anymore.

Definitely post when you've modded it. I request LEDs.

Tamran
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BriGuy  





Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1894
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*bump*
I just added a bunch of stuff to this post that includes some differences between guitar models.

This is certainly not a comprehensive guide to every detail, but it is certainly a great reference for anyone thinking about modding.
Perhaps a sticky is in order, especially once more is known about these guitars and I can fill in some details with clearer pictures and detailed info as it comes in.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: zBriGuy
Tamran  





Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am curious if anyone has any opinions of the three different models. Here are mine:

(1) Metal leaves - Probably high rate of failures due to slippage. They may have fixed the problem had then used two screws to secure the switches instead of one, leaving the mechanism to unwanted swivel. I think Loctite would fix this issue easy enough.

(2) Micro switches - This just seems unfixable if it goes. I don't think this will last the long haul either. I'm curious of results from others (field data). If done right, this could be quite precise.

(3) Magnets - Out of the box idea. I wonder if there is much calibration required to make this work properly? I assume this would be more $$$ to make. Is this a similar mechanism to what is in the foot pedal?

Tamran
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joshtbuff  





Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BriGuy wrote:
The more you angle it down, the higher you can hold the guitar without OD activation.


when you say tilt it down do you mean tilt the area closest to the strum bar toward the ceiling? could you just move the little black tubes in that angle without taking it all apart?

Edit: I notice bending is not the same motion. I was thinking bending up was toward the ceiling with the guitar disassembled laying flat. I am still curious at to how much you tilted it and my other question still stands. tilt area closest to strum bar toward ceiling?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joshtbuff  





Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so i think i have my tilt fixed. On to new problems. Whammy. I cant whammy, well i can whammy but the controller doesnt recognize it. No of a way to fix this?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lumberofthebeast  





Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 201
Location: A dinky Missouri backwater

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would I need to adjust the tilt sensors differently for lefties? I ask because I'm right-handed, and my stepfather's a lefty, and (for now) we use the same Strat. Would we be best off if I simply didn't meddle?
_________________
Warning: Mood will fluctuate rapidly. If I flame you, take comfort in the fact that I will feel guilty about it within fifteen minutes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger XBL Gamertag: El Oh Tee Bee
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ScoreHero Forum Index -> Hardware All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Copyright © 2006-2024 ScoreHero, LLC
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy


Powered by phpBB