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PathStats - Per Measure Pathing Data- Beatles (no harmonies)
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internetguy87  





Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 3505
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beingmused wrote:
Deschain wrote:
Was pathing out Give It All, and I was using the per-beat stats. However, the counts looked like they were in 2-beat increments. Something similar occurred in Ride The Lightning, where there were a couple measures where the measure was split into more than 4 beats, though the sections in question for both songs were in 4/4. Does this mean the OD drain has changed from beat-for-beat to something else, and the pathstats is accommodating? So a full bar actually will last longer than 8 measures of 4/4 in Give It All?


Give it All drains 2 OD beats per measure.
That means when you go to pathstats and select the "per OD beat" option, it gives you half of a measure per row.

I'm not entirely clear what you're asking, but that's all the way it is supposed to be.


And just to sort your other example. Ride the lightning is mostly in 4/4 time, however there are some parts with drain of 2 OD beats/measure so all measures are split into 2, and there are some parts with drain of 8 OD beats/measure, so all measures split into 8.
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Deschain  





Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beingmused wrote:
internetguy87 wrote:

Give it All drains 2 OD beats per measure.
That means when you go to pathstats and select the "per OD beat" option, it gives you half of a measure per row.
I'm not entirely clear what you're asking, but that's all the way it is supposed to be.

And just to sort your other example. Ride the lightning is mostly in 4/4 time, however there are some parts with drain of 2 OD beats/measure so all measures are split into 2, and there are some parts with drain of 8 OD beats/measure, so all measures split into 8.

I was unclear on how to interpret OD drain changes, but I see Pathstats changes the increments for you (at least on a per-beat level, since that's the only beat size I use). So if Give It All drains at half the speed, it lasts twice as long. I was confused, thinking the pathstats was a typo, and still counted a full bar as lasting only 8 measures. As a result, I got some laughably bad 1.4 million results, but I'm pretty sure I know how to work it now. Thanks for your help!
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CraZy  





Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 616
Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

any updates on what's going on with the Abbey Road songs? I know ajanata was having issues with the MIDs also, but did you guys sort it out yet? just wondering, what is the issue? (even though i prob wont understand any of it).
well, i really appreciate all the work you have done for us with this. and just so you know, my brother and I have developed a new template that makes pathing MUCH much faster and easier to follow. also makes tweaking alot better and the scores are more accurate. however, it is MINE!!! (just kidding) i MAY [think about] releasing it to the public, but idk if i really want IB and Kawigi to get their hands on it, bad enough they already [think they can] path better than me. hehe.
once again, thanks for everything and when I retire (since all the cool kids are doing it), i will release all my paths and everything to the public. heh, but that wont be for a while... probably When I'm 64 ... get it?

p34nUt
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Kawigi  





Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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Location: Redmond, WA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue seems to have been something about extracting the files. Imagine you have some file like an uncompressed zip file, and you have a file inside it that you care about that's a certain length and starts at a certain offset, and you used the right length but the wrong offset. That's what it looked like to me, at least. I don't have Beatles (or the DLC for it :-p) so I haven't attempted to do it myself, I don't know if ajanata has yet.
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ajanata  





Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: South Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to try again the next time I dump DLC, which will probably be tomorrow.
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CraZy  





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajanata wrote:
I'm going to try again the next time I dump DLC, which will probably be tomorrow.

hey ajanata, any update on this situation?
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ajanata  





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pulled the file off my hard drive again and had the same issue. I don't think the file is corrupted on the hard drive because I was able to play some songs inside of it. I'll try downloading it again, but if it still doesn't work I don't know what I'm going to do. I suppose I'll just have to try to find another program that can read the DLC archive format.
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CraZy  





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, i'm writing this post for two reasons. first (of course) to check and see if we have an update on Abbey Road. (sorry im pestering!! haha)

also, i noticed a BIG issue with I Am The Walrus' PathStats. Apparently the phrases with the "Woo" are being WAYY over scored. I pathed this song for my band, and we played it with a perfectly executed path, and our score was off by ~60k. Normally, if a path is off by around 10k, we figure it was squeezing and whatnot, but 60k is tooo much. So through a bunch of analysis (probably too much) we found out that there are 6 measures which are off by about a total of 9k. 3 of which are 2000 pts each. (and of course, activating with 8x on those 3 spots would shoot your score up tremendously on Excel), i took this into 1/2 Measures in order to figure this all out, so the measures in question are: 22.5, 23.5, 42.5, 43.5, 70.5, 71.5

I noticed that they all have in common that there is a Lead Vox Talky ("WOO"), as well as a Harmony Vox Talky ("WOO"). I'm not sure what the issue could be, maybe there is a problem in the MIDI, i don't know. you guys are the experts. :-P

If anyone would like the corrected PathStats without having to do the analysis on their own (LAZY!), you can PM me and I will send it off to you.

Thanks!
p34nUt
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internetguy87  





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update on above post. Me and Pnut were talking and came to following conclusion. I Am the Walrus is far from the only song with this problem. This problem occurs in ANY TBBR phrase that is part pitched part talkie. You can see Come Together and Back in the USSR for other examples.

My guess on what is happening from the values we are seeing. Pathstats is getting the full 4k for the pitched phrase but then adding a bonus for the talkie. This bonus comes in at a proportion of the phrase split up like pathstats does. For example, if we have pitched parts that take up 1.5 beats and a .5 beat talkie then we get .5/(1.5+.5) = .5/2 = 1/4 phrase bonus. (Times 4000 = 1000 extra points).

I can't guarantee that's where these "random" point values come from, but the numbers are pretty damn close.

Edit: Measures 47-48 of Come Together break this theory and I have no idea where these values are now coming from, but clearly its happening on "mixed" phrases.

Edit 2: The measure (or partial measure) which actually contains both talkie and pitched gets the correct value, its occurring in the other portions where it's just talkie outside that measure actually.

For instance in m47-48 the only pitched part takes place from 48.75-49.00.

If you go by measure m47 is some random number and m48 is 4k.
But if you go by 1/2 measure then m48.5 is 4k but m47, 47.5, and 48.0 are all the same random number that doesn't add up to what m47 was.
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Kawigi  





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, my gut feeling is that phrases were just getting split up because of me trying to make sense of the harmony tracks, but do all these songs still have a reasonable total for vocals points for the song?
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internetguy87  





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawigi wrote:
Hmm, my gut feeling is that phrases were just getting split up because of me trying to make sense of the harmony tracks, but do all these songs still have a reasonable total for vocals points for the song?


Depends what your idea of reasonable is. For example I am a Walrus has 11,000 extra vocal points. That obviously doesn't seem like a lot, but once OD's are applied it is a noticeable difference. Meh.
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CraZy  





Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

internetguy87 wrote:
Kawigi wrote:
Hmm, my gut feeling is that phrases were just getting split up because of me trying to make sense of the harmony tracks, but do all these songs still have a reasonable total for vocals points for the song?


Depends what your idea of reasonable is. For example I am a Walrus has 11,000 extra vocal points. That obviously doesn't seem like a lot, but once OD's are applied it is a noticeable difference. Meh.


yea, it caused my path to be about 60k more than our high score, and i was pulling my hair out trying to figure out why. but we have to also keep in mind the difference when the song is split up into half measu and 1-beat. the scores are significantly different. as of now, we have a list of 18 songs. they are:
Code:
Birthday
A Hard Day's Night
Boys
Can't Buy Me Love
Come Together
Dig A Pony
Don't Let Me Down
Get Back
Good Morning Good Morning
Hello Goodbye
Helter Skelter
Hey Bulldog
I Saw Her Standing There
I Wanna Be Your Man
I've Got A Feeling
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Twist And Shout
While My Guitar Gently Weeps


i'm not asking that anything be done ASAP, because i know you're busy, just like us all. but if you could please enlighten us on what may have happened so me, crazed, and internetguy can stop coming up with theories and blowing our brains up. haha. thanks dude.
(PS. Internetguy would like a .zip file of all the expert pathstats.. =D )

thanks,
p34nUt
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Kawigi  





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

internetguy87 wrote:
Kawigi wrote:
Hmm, my gut feeling is that phrases were just getting split up because of me trying to make sense of the harmony tracks, but do all these songs still have a reasonable total for vocals points for the song?


Depends what your idea of reasonable is. For example I am a Walrus has 11,000 extra vocal points. That obviously doesn't seem like a lot, but once OD's are applied it is a noticeable difference. Meh.


What I mean by "reasonable" is that the total is valid for a song with some number of vocal phrases, e.g. it is 4000*n+2000 for some integer n. If there's exactly 11k extra points, then that's not reasonable, and it must be something other than that :-)

CraZy - on those 18 songs, are the total vocal points different on 1-beat than on half-measure scores?
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CraZy  





Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawigi wrote:
internetguy87 wrote:
Kawigi wrote:
Hmm, my gut feeling is that phrases were just getting split up because of me trying to make sense of the harmony tracks, but do all these songs still have a reasonable total for vocals points for the song?


Depends what your idea of reasonable is. For example I am a Walrus has 11,000 extra vocal points. That obviously doesn't seem like a lot, but once OD's are applied it is a noticeable difference. Meh.


What I mean by "reasonable" is that the total is valid for a song with some number of vocal phrases, e.g. it is 4000*n+2000 for some integer n. If there's exactly 11k extra points, then that's not reasonable, and it must be something other than that :-)

CraZy - on those 18 songs, are the total vocal points different on 1-beat than on half-measure scores?


well, the 11k isnt an exact amount, it is around that. and i havent check through ALL of the 18 songs, but from about 5 of them, i've noticed a different score difference from full meas, half meas, and 1-beat. each having different totals for the specific phrases in questiion. if you want, u can IM me and maybe we can try and piece this issue together. as i go through the questionable pathstats, i will document all my changes. i will most likely be working on them over the weekend.
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beingmused  





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if you look at the vox totals in the instrument breakdown in the 2nd half of path stats...

The vocals total should be 4000*n + 2000, where N = the number of total phrases minus 2.

Birthday has 23 phrases, it should be 86k, and under full measures that is what it says. Under 1-beat it says 86007, 86005 under 2-beat.

Boys: 25 phrases, should be 94k. Under full measures the vox total is 96039. 96036 under 2-beat.

Hey Bulldog: 27 phrases. Should be 102k. Full measure shows 103905, etc. etc.

I Am the Walrus: 49 phrases, should be 190k. Full measure shows 199,985. 1 beat shows 200,391
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