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Elvisman2001
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
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 Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I'd love to get that setup that Zombie is describing... if I knew for sure it worked.
I am guessing if you're trigger you talked about with me in the other threaad works, then that should work. So, I am waiting till you confirm that working before I jump on that. |
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MrFreshness007
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| zombie1942 wrote: | | MrFreshness007 wrote: | Is there any springiness to the pedal with this? Part of playing fast bass drum is controlling the rebound off of the base drum.
I'm wondering if using this mode but still having the beater hit a drum (like my edrum bass - pintech drum mounted on a stand that the bass pedal hits) will still acitvate that button while also giving you the bounce back off the drum.
BTW: nive video DeepBlueVibes. |
if you have a pintech drum... thats a trigger... so instead of running the patch cable from the drum to your drum brain... run it into the back of the rockband drumset... you dont need the block of wood with the button... that is doing the job of a real trigger.
youll probably just need to get a reducer so it can plug in...
thats a trigger right there... normally you run a patch cable into your drum brain and it produces a kick sound when its hit... now the RB drum pad is your brain... so just plug it in and you should be set. |
I know what your saying and yep, I've tried. No worky. It requires more than an adapter. I know nothing about electronics but I believe the issue is that the edrum expects a different signal than the simple on/off that the RB bass pedal provides. Remember that the edrum, like the other pads on my ekit, can sense hardness of impact to create different levels of loudness.
There's a post on the RB forum of a guy that did get his electronic HH pedal to work with the RB kit. This would make sense as the eHH is basically an on/off switch. Also requires a mono adapter. I tried this yesterday with my eHH and a stereo adapter and it didn't work. So, off to Radio Shack to get a mono adapter.
If this works for me, I'll probably be happy till true edrum support is figured out by someone. |
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zombie1942
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 241
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| MrFreshness007 wrote: | | zombie1942 wrote: | | MrFreshness007 wrote: | Is there any springiness to the pedal with this? Part of playing fast bass drum is controlling the rebound off of the base drum.
I'm wondering if using this mode but still having the beater hit a drum (like my edrum bass - pintech drum mounted on a stand that the bass pedal hits) will still acitvate that button while also giving you the bounce back off the drum.
BTW: nive video DeepBlueVibes. |
if you have a pintech drum... thats a trigger... so instead of running the patch cable from the drum to your drum brain... run it into the back of the rockband drumset... you dont need the block of wood with the button... that is doing the job of a real trigger.
youll probably just need to get a reducer so it can plug in...
thats a trigger right there... normally you run a patch cable into your drum brain and it produces a kick sound when its hit... now the RB drum pad is your brain... so just plug it in and you should be set. |
I know what your saying and yep, I've tried. No worky. It requires more than an adapter. I know nothing about electronics but I believe the issue is that the edrum expects a different signal than the simple on/off that the RB bass pedal provides. Remember that the edrum, like the other pads on my ekit, can sense hardness of impact to create different levels of loudness.
There's a post on the RB forum of a guy that did get his electronic HH pedal to work with the RB kit. This would make sense as the eHH is basically an on/off switch. Also requires a mono adapter. I tried this yesterday with my eHH and a stereo adapter and it didn't work. So, off to Radio Shack to get a mono adapter.
If this works for me, I'll probably be happy till true edrum support is figured out by someone. |
If your HH pedal didnt work because your adapter is not mono... then wouldn't the same be true for the kick pad you tried?
the cable that comes from the RB kick is for sure a mono... so thats what the drumset jack is looking for.
Im no pro on audio cable... but i see your point on kick triggers sending more than an on/off signal... but i would have to think that signal is signal... I'll have my hands on the v-drum kick trigger tonight... but you need to try a mono adapter with your kick as well when you try your HH. |
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Elvisman2001
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| zombie1942 wrote: | | MrFreshness007 wrote: | | zombie1942 wrote: | | MrFreshness007 wrote: | Is there any springiness to the pedal with this? Part of playing fast bass drum is controlling the rebound off of the base drum.
I'm wondering if using this mode but still having the beater hit a drum (like my edrum bass - pintech drum mounted on a stand that the bass pedal hits) will still acitvate that button while also giving you the bounce back off the drum.
BTW: nive video DeepBlueVibes. |
if you have a pintech drum... thats a trigger... so instead of running the patch cable from the drum to your drum brain... run it into the back of the rockband drumset... you dont need the block of wood with the button... that is doing the job of a real trigger.
youll probably just need to get a reducer so it can plug in...
thats a trigger right there... normally you run a patch cable into your drum brain and it produces a kick sound when its hit... now the RB drum pad is your brain... so just plug it in and you should be set. |
I know what your saying and yep, I've tried. No worky. It requires more than an adapter. I know nothing about electronics but I believe the issue is that the edrum expects a different signal than the simple on/off that the RB bass pedal provides. Remember that the edrum, like the other pads on my ekit, can sense hardness of impact to create different levels of loudness.
There's a post on the RB forum of a guy that did get his electronic HH pedal to work with the RB kit. This would make sense as the eHH is basically an on/off switch. Also requires a mono adapter. I tried this yesterday with my eHH and a stereo adapter and it didn't work. So, off to Radio Shack to get a mono adapter.
If this works for me, I'll probably be happy till true edrum support is figured out by someone. |
If your HH pedal didnt work because your adapter is not mono... then wouldn't the same be true for the kick pad you tried?
the cable that comes from the RB kick is for sure a mono... so thats what the drumset jack is looking for.
Im no pro on audio cable... but i see your point on kick triggers sending more than an on/off signal... but i would have to think that signal is signal... I'll have my hands on the v-drum kick trigger tonight... but you need to try a mono adapter with your kick as well when you try your HH. |
Keeping a very close eye on this. |
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zombie1942
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 241
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: |
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My test has been unsuccessful...
Here is what it looked like...
Im 99.9% this has everything to do with the trigger... because just plugging in the cable made the kick register in RB practice mode... so that means the cabling must have been correct... which was just a standard 1/4" mono patch cable with a 1/4 to 1/8 mono reducer...
This kick is the type that can register pressure and strength of hit... so it must not be sending the right type of signal...
But still I bet it you had a trigger that was simply hit or no hit... it might work... Ill keep testing... |
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MrFreshness007
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:25 am Post subject: |
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As others have documented on the RB forum, I was able to successfully use my Yamaha HH60 for bass drum. Its so much stronger (completely metal pedal) but in its current state, isn't nearly sensitive enough to register quick bass hits. There is some adjustments I can make (I think) that will modify the springiness of the pad but I don't know if it will make enough of a difference.
However, add a 1/8 inch splitter and run two wires to the original bass pedal and the HH, and bingo...you've got double bass. The HH would be fine for that usage...which is what I'm probably going to do anyway.
Now here's something else interesting. I also tried my Yamaha KP60 kick pad. Cabling went into a 1/8 inch stereo to 1/4 inch mono adapter into the RB kit...same as the HH above)
(here's an image of the pedal here...page down a bit...btw, this isn't my kit.. http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w13060375)
This did register bass hits, however they were never consistent...almost random hits. I'm not sure if it could be the bass pad itself (haven't used it in years) or the cabling. I guess more testing would be needed. |
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Elvisman2001
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| zombie1942 wrote: | My test has been unsuccessful...
Here is what it looked like...
Im 99.9% this has everything to do with the trigger... because just plugging in the cable made the kick register in RB practice mode... so that means the cabling must have been correct... which was just a standard 1/4" mono patch cable with a 1/4 to 1/8 mono reducer...
This kick is the type that can register pressure and strength of hit... so it must not be sending the right type of signal...
But still I bet it you had a trigger that was simply hit or no hit... it might work... Ill keep testing... |
Definite bummer.
I was leaning towards it not working though.
If the input works with a momentary push button, then it really isn;t looking for a signal I wouldn't think. it is more acting like and on/off swich and just looking for a completion to the circuit.
Bha. Who knows at this point. Hope someone gets it figured out as to exactly what's going on with it.
Wish I was brave enough to take the original pedal apart to see exaclty how it works. |
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Nathan
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Elvisman: I just tried the mod myself, since my bass pedal snapped last week. After toying with things, I can say that yes, the drum controller is just looking for completion of the circuit in order to register a hit- there's no special type of signal being sent or anything. How do I know this? I took an audio plug with wires connected to it, and touched the two sides of the wires together. Tada, registers a hit. I then took it a step further and connected it to the momentary pushbutton from Radioshack, and still works. All I need now is a cheap bass pedal to put it in.
So, things I've discovered, in case they're new:
-The RB drum controller is only looking for "circuit completion" in order to register a hit. IE, if the electricity leaving the controller is coming back to it somehow, a hit is registered.
-Once a hit is registered, a new hit cannot be registered until the circuit is opened and then closed again.
-The sensor inside of the RB pedal is uber-simple: It's a magnet that detects when another magnet on the upper half of the pedal is close to it. How close? Eh, a little more than a half an inch.
PS: I'm curious as to wether there are any other cheap input methods other than the push-button that can be used. It's only like two inches tall and doesn't seem like it'd be hardy enough to stand up to weeks of beating or the force of a foot and metal pedal on top of it. Does anybody who's electric-engineering minded know of any hinge type trigger, or magnetic type trigger like the one the game's pedal uses?
PPS: O hai, I'm Nathan and I'm gonna stop lurking so much since this is (finally) my first GH/RB mod. |
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Elvisman2001
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Nathan wrote: | Elvisman: I just tried the mod myself, since my bass pedal snapped last week. After toying with things, I can say that yes, the drum controller is just looking for completion of the circuit in order to register a hit- there's no special type of signal being sent or anything. How do I know this? I took an audio plug with wires connected to it, and touched the two sides of the wires together. Tada, registers a hit. I then took it a step further and connected it to the momentary pushbutton from Radioshack, and still works. All I need now is a cheap bass pedal to put it in.
So, things I've discovered, in case they're new:
-The RB drum controller is only looking for "circuit completion" in order to register a hit. IE, if the electricity leaving the controller is coming back to it somehow, a hit is registered.
-Once a hit is registered, a new hit cannot be registered until the circuit is opened and then closed again.
-The sensor inside of the RB pedal is uber-simple: It's a magnet that detects when another magnet on the upper half of the pedal is close to it. How close? Eh, a little more than a half an inch.
PS: I'm curious as to wether there are any other cheap input methods other than the push-button that can be used. It's only like two inches tall and doesn't seem like it'd be hardy enough to stand up to weeks of beating or the force of a foot and metal pedal on top of it. Does anybody who's electric-engineering minded know of any hinge type trigger, or magnetic type trigger like the one the game's pedal uses?
PPS: O hai, I'm Nathan and I'm gonna stop lurking so much since this is (finally) my first GH/RB mod. |
I was seriously considering "gutting" the real RB pedal and putting the parts onto an actual bass pedal myself...
I finally decided to look at the pedal and when I saw there were only 2 screws holding the main part in, I decided to take it out to see how it works. And, you are right. It is simply activated by a magnet.
Shame it so simple in a way. I was really stoked about being able to use an actula trigger for it. But, there still should be a way to make it work with an actual beater and a beat-pad with some inginuity i would think. |
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MrFreshness007
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 11
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Elvisman2001
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Cool! Any idea where that cymbal pad can be purchased? Can't seem to find it on musician's friend. |
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zombie1942
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 241
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Elvisman2001 wrote: |
Cool! Any idea where that cymbal pad can be purchased? Can't seem to find it on musician's friend. |
thats going to be the problem... most non-piezo trigger elements have been discontinued since drummers want triggers that can pickup sensitivity...
the woodblock trigger that is shown in another thread here is still a good idea... but for real feel i would want to put a beater in the pedal and have it hit a practice pad... then just build the woodblock with the switch so that as soon as the beater stop at the practice pad the trigger switch is hit by the underside of the pedal. |
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MrFreshness007
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| zombie1942 wrote: | | Elvisman2001 wrote: |
Cool! Any idea where that cymbal pad can be purchased? Can't seem to find it on musician's friend. |
thats going to be the problem... most non-piezo trigger elements have been discontinued since drummers want triggers that can pickup sensitivity...
the woodblock trigger that is shown in another thread here is still a good idea... but for real feel i would want to put a beater in the pedal and have it hit a practice pad... then just build the woodblock with the switch so that as soon as the beater stop at the practice pad the trigger switch is hit by the underside of the pedal. |
Before I figured out my solution last night, I was going to do exactly what you said. Build the button based trigger and then use it with my electronic Pintech bass drum so that I had the realistic bounce.
I've scrapped that idea now that I have the real thing working great. Unless I break the cymbal pad, I really don't see a need to try anything else. Than again I've got 3 more of the same electronic cymbals that I could use. (don't use my DTXpress at all anymore) |
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Vanguard
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Nathan wrote: |
So, things I've discovered, in case they're new:
-The RB drum controller is only looking for "circuit completion" in order to register a hit. IE, if the electricity leaving the controller is coming back to it somehow, a hit is registered.
-Once a hit is registered, a new hit cannot be registered until the circuit is opened and then closed again.
-The sensor inside of the RB pedal is uber-simple: It's a magnet that detects when another magnet on the upper half of the pedal is close to it. How close? Eh, a little more than a half an inch.
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I'm asking this same question. Is there any kind of switch that could be used that could still be pressed down and let another register as well for a double bass pedal? I'm thinking two cherry switches, but i'm not convinced they are durable enough to withstand 1,000 hard kicks. |
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rhythmjunkie
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Northern VA / MD / D.C
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:18 am Post subject: |
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probably not-- mono only allows the signal to register as being 1 (on) or 0 (off)
So for example when the left pedal is pressed down, you wouldnt be able to get the right bass pedal to register a hit since thecircuit is already being completed. As of right now there doesn't seem to be any solution to this problem until HMX makes an adapter or new kind of pedal  |
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