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Rock Band 2 Score Tracking is Live!
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Sully  
 




Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 4570
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCirri wrote:
As far as guitar/bass, with the addition of forced HO/POs, certain parts are now easier in RB2. Whether or not this applies to all the DLC prior to RB2 I'm not sure, but it doesn't really make sense to combine a subset of songs for guitar/bass and then split apart everything else. To prevent complications and knowing that either game can be individually patched in the future to create more differences, we're going to keep things separated.


Very valid points, but I do understand Abobstar's frustration. After all the time he has spent on his "RB1 DLC" scores, he now has two options (well three really, but the third is completely unreasonable):

1) Continue playing any new DLC on RB1.
2) Replay all DLC for RB2 and also continue with any new DLC on RB2.
3) Play all DLC twice- on both RB1 and RB2.

Continued competition on RB1 DLC will likely dwindle to nothing. I know that any future DLC I get will be submitted to RB2, but I'm not nearly as vested in RB1 DLC as some of the guys with everything =/
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beingmused  
 




Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 2475
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCirri wrote:

That's not what he's saying, he's saying the distance between having OD available and when a fill section can appear is decreased which means some activations are possible in RB2 that aren't in RB1. But it doesn't even matter if the highest possible scores in RB2 were less than RB1. All that matters is that they're different and therefore not comparable with one another.

As far as guitar/bass, with the addition of forced HO/POs, certain parts are now easier in RB2. Whether or not this applies to all the DLC prior to RB2 I'm not sure, but it doesn't really make sense to combine a subset of songs for guitar/bass and then split apart everything else. To prevent complications and knowing that either game can be individually patched in the future to create more differences, we're going to keep things separated.


Oh, I know; sorry if I was unclear. I realize that they're incompatible...I was just pointing out that scores on guitar and bass at least can't be higher on RB1 than they can on RB2. But separation definitely makes sense.
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JCirri  
 




Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4527
Location: Baltimore, MD

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I completely understand the frustration, Sully. The amount of time to replay everything is enormous and now we've got players having to make a choice on which leaderboards to compete (the new ones with the updated features? or the existing ones with the predefined competition?). It's definitely not an easy choice and not really reasonable to expect people to compete hardcore on both, so ultimately the competition is going to get segmented.

The problem is that there really aren't many alternatives. The same frustration exists for drums and vocals where we simply -can't- combine anything. With a lot of work redesigning the database schema I could combine a subset of the guitar/bass songs. But then what happens when a month from now HMX releases some new hardware capability that only works on RB2 (possibly like a touchstrip similar to the GHWT guitar), or patches the RB2 engine to change something that affects some scoring mechanics (like the recent RB1 patch)? I have no clue if any of that will happen, but even if it didn't, by the end of the year when we've got another ~200 DLC songs that are required to be split apart, we'd just end up running into the same issue again down the road.

So I'm certainly open to suggestions, but as of now I don't see any better alternatives.
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Glovesave74  
 




Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 209
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rock Band 2 is loads of fun! There is a lot of songs. btw you put up score tracking in record time.
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Abomstar  
 




Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 994
Location: Utica, NY

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'll just re-do/improve all the old songs on RB2, but it'll be a very long-term sort of thing. In fact, RB3 will probably be out by then...

I understand the decision though, it's fine.

On an unrelated note, for once DLC gets its own "game" section, have you ever considered creating sub-leaderboards for things like large packs and album releases? Similarly to how you can see who has the highest combined score across all Intermediate difficulty songs, it would be neat to have for special DLC. Just a suggestion.
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CoffeeBeans  
 




Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCirri wrote:
ShiftBreaker wrote:
I have a question. While not entirely relevant to RB2, it does have something to do with a recent release.

Is there going to be Score Tracking for the 9 European Tracks for the PS2/Wii versions of Rock Band 1? There's no DLC option for them, so there's nowhere to put the scores up apart from an individual Section.

Sorry these weren't up earlier, I've now added a tier for the PS2 and Wii versions of Rock Band with the 9 European Exclusives tracks.

CoffeeBeans wrote:
Sorry if this is noobie but what are forced hopos? And also is there a website where I can see my scores for rb2? Cuz the in-game stats are so confusing since there's no solo tour..

Forced HO/POs are hammer-on/pull-off notes that can be written into the note chart on a per-note basis. In RB1 it was all automatic such that if two notes were close enough together, the second would be a HO/PO, and if not, it would be strummed. Now the Harmonix note charters can manually change some of the strum notes into HO/POs as well.

As far as a website, I imagine rockband.com/leaderboards will also have the RB2 songs up at some point, but you can always track your stats here.


thx for explaining but im still confused lol but it doesnt really matter since i suck at the game anyway.
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JCirri  
 




Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4527
Location: Baltimore, MD

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abomstar wrote:
On an unrelated note, for once DLC gets its own "game" section, have you ever considered creating sub-leaderboards for things like large packs and album releases? Similarly to how you can see who has the highest combined score across all Intermediate difficulty songs, it would be neat to have for special DLC. Just a suggestion.

Yes, once the tiering system has flexibility to create new groupings I could easily define groups based on pack releases (and maybe group all the singles into one tier). That's a good idea.
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KEFIOX  
 




Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 640

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, let me get this straight. Basically we have to replay all the dlc on RB2. Our previous dlc scores won't transfer over? Not just SH I mean the official RB leaderboards? That is absolutely rediculous. I've currently been running through all the dlc on RB1 on all instruments until RB2 comes out and was going to reupload all my scores (that I asked you to delete JCirri) before I got RB2. But now I'm not even going to bother if I have to replay them all over again. Do you know how long it's going to take to play 300+ songs on all instruments over again?

On another note. I was wondering Jcirri if it was possible to make it so that we could upload multiple scores at once (for different songs)? Because uploading 300+ songs (in most cases again) just for RB2 is going to take a rediculously long time and it will take even longer if we have to do it one song at a time.
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BigZ7337  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 2022
Location: Williamsport, PA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jcirri, I'm another person invested with RB DLC being the drummer of the #1 DLC Whore band, and frankly I don't see why scores aren't comparable. We are still planning to go through all of the songs for fun's sake and the official RB2 leaderboards, but I would have been nice if our top scores transferred. I think it's a pretty general consensus that all the DLC whores want the scores to count for both RB1 and RB2, and aren't the leaderboards meant for us?

I don't see how scores have drastically changed, the only obvious difference is that now TwistedOak (the band's vocalist) will be able to 100% all the broken songs he couldn't before. The only reason scores should be non-transferable would be if the new maximum score was LOWER that the RB1 score. So that no one would ever be able to top the score. If the new potential max for all the DLC is higher, than the people playing on RB2 will just surpass the previous leader.

Overall, I view this site as a democracy with a great hard-working president, but scorehero shouldn't be a monarchy. The choice should be up to the members of scorehero in my honest opinion.

Edit: I don't mean to sound like a douche bag, but I know I will never touch RB1 again, so all those scores I put in will mean nothing. Also, this is a new strange situation with songs that work between games, and you're trying your best to find the correct solution. One more thing, I haven't played too many dlc songs yet, but does any of the newer DLC have drum solos and all the cool new RB2 stuff?
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beingmused  
 




Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 2475
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigZ7337 wrote:

I don't see how scores have drastically changed, the only obvious difference is that now TwistedOal (my vocalist) will be able to 100% all the broken songs he couldn't before. The only reason scores should be non-transferable would be if the new maximum score was LOWER that theRB1 score. So that no one would ever be able to top the score. If the new potential max for all the DLC is higher, than the people playing on RB2 will just surpass the previous leader.


I'm in the exact same boat as far as how I spend my time (in a DLC whore band).

The thing is, there is a potential for higher scores on RB1 than RB2 due to changed drum pathing. Practically, this makes only a tiny difference, and in rare cases. Theoretically, however....

Besides, single player vocals also suffer a significant change that could allow for higher scores to be transfered over; can you imagine the firestorm that would occur if every *other* instrument got to carry their DLC scores over?
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JCirri  
 




Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4527
Location: Baltimore, MD

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigZ7337 wrote:
I think it's a pretty general consensus that all the DLC whores want the scores to count for both RB1 and RB2, and aren't the leaderboards meant for us?

I don't see how scores havec drastically changed, the only obvious difference is that now TwistedOal (my vocalist) will be able to 100% all the broken songs he couldn't before. The only reason scores should be non-transferable would be if the new maximum score was LOWER that the RB1 score. So that no one would ever be able to top the score. If the new potential max for all the DLC is higher, than the people playing on RB2 will just surpass the previous leader.

But is that fair to the previous leader who may not own RB2 to have an optimal score and still not have a change to compete for the combined rank? If that's the case, then what does the rank really imply with people on a non-even playing field being ranked together?

There are differences between drum solos adding points, forced ho/po's, and easier talkies plus OD differences in vocals. Making the (possibly incorrect) argument that the optimal scores for RB2 are all higher only means that RB2 players can compete for the top, while disregarding top competition amongst RB1 players. I can guarantee that not everyone who's submitted a RB1 DLC score will purchase RB2. And in caring for competition among everyone, decided not to make the dictatorship-like decision to disregard that portion of the userbase.

BigZ7337 wrote:
Overall, I view this site as a democracy with a great hard-working president, but scorehero shouldn't be a monarchy/dictatorship. The choice should be up to the members of scorehero in my honest opinion.

If there's overwhelming support to combine the songs despite the differences, I can definitely consider it. It would take a lot of work, and I think adding support for cross-platform ranks, splitting DLC to a separate game, and adding multiple tier groupings (other than difficulty) are more popular demands from most of you right now. But I won't rule it out if that's what everyone wants to see.

Personally I think it would end up being a case of comparing apples to oranges and would want to gather stats to show the community how (non?)comparable the scores are, and generate more feedback before making any final decision. Right now there still isn't much data in the system, but that will change and I'll eventually be able to pull some nice comparisons. I've submitted a large amount of DLC myself and am not necessarily happy about having to replay everything in RB2, but more importantly I like to know that each of my ranks accurately reflects my skill on each song.
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xHighwayToHellx  
 




Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I support separation, period. Different internal engine=different game and different songs, even if they sound exactly the same. If people don't like the idea of replaying DLC again, then don't do it. The old scores are there, you'll just have to click a few times to get to them, or better yet, put them in two separate tabs and make them your homepages; then they'll only be one click or an Alt+Tab away. Besides 300 songs isn't that much, I have ten times that number on my iPod and I've heard them all so many times I can't stand listening to them anymore. Just pretend like all the new songs are like those old records you pull out and listen to for old time's sake, it'll be fun I promise.
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CrackerRiley  
 




Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 3085

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm for keeping them separated. The only reason people have for keeping all of them together is because "it will take so long to replay the songs." If that is your biggest problem, why buy all the songs if you're not going to have fun playing them? Isn't the main point to play the songs for fun? I guess (...I'm sure) people will have different priorities though.
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Snoman  
 




Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im guessing we can just repost our scores from RB1 over on this?
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JCirri  
 




Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4527
Location: Baltimore, MD

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please re-read my first post:

JCirri wrote:
For those who were wondering how shared songs would be handled, we've determined there are several key differences between the original Rock Band and Rock Band 2 game engines making the scores non-comparable and preventing us from combining the ranks. This means: you cannot submit Rock Band scores under Rock Band 2 or vice versa. If you wish to compete in the new ranks, you will need to replay the songs on the new game engine.

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