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Deimos  





Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 1344
Location: Calgary, AB

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:12 pm    Post subject: Leagues suggestions Reply with quote

Please use this thread to make suggestions for the league "planning committee" (as described in this thread) to discuss. This can be anything from types of leagues you enjoyed or that you would like to see, to rule changes or new types of twists. Just about anything is going to be open to consideration, so let us know what you think. Thanks, I'm looking forward to seeing your ideas.
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BigZ7337  





Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 2022
Location: Williamsport, PA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I again would love to see full band dlc leagues, but I don't know how high the interest would be. I enjoyed the all dlc single instrument leagues and the one-man band league, so I would like to keep them. One-man band all dlc might be something cool to try.

I also think that for some select people we could choose more leagues, because I love participating in all of them. With all the people that quit, I don't think they do any leagues, and the people that commit would do so for multiple leagues.
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CraZy  





Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 616
Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im with bigz on the DLC stuff. I'd like to see more DLC specific leagues. especially full-band and co-op drum/gtr. there are far more DLC songs than on-disc songs, and i'm sure 95% of the people who own dlc would agree that it is alot more fun to play dlc over on-disc. there are also more difficult songs on dlc, which would provide for more of a challenge, rather than having a full-band song choice of ITiP and having a path-off/squeeze-off. i really enjoyed the full-band [on-disc] league, but a dlc league would be so much more interesting. the all-dlc drum league was amazing, i actually stayed in it the whole time (despite having to play truckin' [i hate that song])

my suggestions in tl;dr format:
more DLC specific leagues. provide for more diversity of songs based on genre and difficulty.

thanks,
p34nUt
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elx  





Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 1656
Location: Redford, MI

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CraZy wrote:
im with bigz on the DLC stuff. I'd like to see more DLC specific leagues. especially full-band and co-op drum/gtr. there are far more DLC songs than on-disc songs, and i'm sure 95% of the people who own dlc would agree that it is alot more fun to play dlc over on-disc. there are also more difficult songs on dlc, which would provide for more of a challenge, rather than having a full-band song choice of ITiP and having a path-off/squeeze-off. i really enjoyed the full-band [on-disc] league, but a dlc league would be so much more interesting. the all-dlc drum league was amazing, i actually stayed in it the whole time (despite having to play truckin' [i hate that song])

my suggestions in tl;dr format:
more DLC specific leagues. provide for more diversity of songs based on genre and difficulty.

thanks,
p34nUt


I will just throw this out there. The tough part about running the DLC is the overall lack of people willing to buy any songs they may need as we go along each week.
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BigZ7337  





Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 2022
Location: Williamsport, PA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, there are a lot of dlc whores out there (most of them are on my friends list ) we just have to get them to sign up and stick through the leagues.

Also, I don't know if this was on purpose, but last season some of the worst dlc songs possible were chosen for the league. I wonder if everyone could agree on the top ten or so worst songs on rock band being left out.
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b08smith  





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Portsmouth, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll throw in my hat for a DLC one-man band league. Sounds like a great idea, even if you just open signups and carry it forward if you get enough interest.

Also regarding having songs come up that people may dislike/don't want to buy you could use the star ratings on rbdlc.com and disregard the lowest ones. Just an idea
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WildcatTennis  





Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 2267
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigZ7337 wrote:
I again would love to see full band dlc leagues, but I don't know how high the interest would be. I enjoyed the all dlc single instrument leagues and the one-man band league, so I would like to keep them. One-man band all dlc might be something cool to try.

I also think that for some select people we could choose more leagues, because I love participating in all of them. With all the people that quit, I don't think they do any leagues, and the people that commit would do so for multiple leagues.


I love this idea, but I don't know a whole lot of committed people on PS3. it's hard enough to find PS3ers for a band, much less a DLC band.
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Farlus  





Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 640
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For One Man Band, I was hoping originally that the winner each week was decided by most points overall total (combine scores for each instrument then assign points based on overall total).

Maybe expand One Man Band to be different songs on different instruments on different difficulties each week...assigning a difficulty each week gives more of a chance to those who can't play everything on expert.
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b08smith  





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1140
Location: Portsmouth, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farlus wrote:
For One Man Band, I was hoping originally that the winner each week was decided by most points overall total (combine scores for each instrument then assign points based on overall total).


The main problem with this is that it leads to a bias on whatever instrument can score the most points for that particular song. Why try and FC the bass part if you could just spend more time on drums to get a higher score.

Awarding points for standings in each instrument and then combining those is a much better/fairer way.

Farlus wrote:
Maybe expand One Man Band to be different songs on different instruments on different difficulties each week...


I don't really agree with this either and Im not trying to be overly negative but there are other leagues for all these things, no need to split up or change One Man Band from being one song, all instruments.
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ultratowel112  





Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about a PS2 drum league? I would be fine with playing on hard, if that's what it took to have a league.
Keep one-man band the same.
I don't have a PS3/360, but what about, and this may sound crazy, ALL songs league for each instrument? Each week, two on-disk and two DLC songs would be chosen.
That is all the suggestions I have now.
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twistedoak  





Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As earlier stated, I cannot emphasize enough the importance of dlc leagues. It will be our job to make sure that people sign up for these leagues, but please offer them again.

Maybe we can limit the dlc to the most popular (most bought) dlc so people don't have to buy every single song out there to compete in the leagues. For example, if you gave a list of dlc that is required (i.e. top 20 songs) to be in that league, it might be more desirable for some to compete in the league.
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dore  





Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: Boone, NC

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My main ideas are for the One Man Band league. Note that this is all my opinion and so assume a ", IMO" is at the end of every sentence

The fatal flaw with the system for the first season was that guitar counted too much. There are three distinct skill-sets involved in the One-Man-Band: guitar, drums, and vox. Each of these have their own style of playing (seeing as they're different instruments), their own style of pathing (fixed activation points or not, individual notes scored or phrases, etc.), and their own style of squeezing. The fundamental problem is that the guitar skill set counts just as much as the other two skill sets combined, which isn't fair.

A prime example I can think of is Beethoven's Cunt (I know it's DLC but it's a perfect example). Clearly, this song features drums and vocals. Vox have all kinds of weird, interesting stuff and drums have lots of rolls, quick hits, and interesting rhythms. But, if this song were to be in this league, being able to squeeze two very similar charts on guitar would weigh just as much as being able to master two difficult charts on two other instruments.

My first thought was that guitar and bass should be combined; each of the skill-sets (guitar/bass & vox & drums) would each count an even 33% of the scores. But this shafts the guitar specialists in that their main skill would require twice the pathing and squeezing to get the same amount of points as a drum or vox specialist.

So then I figured that the best system would be on a song-by-song basis. Most songs are pretty clear in which instruments are featured; everyone knows that DFTR is crazy on drums and that GGaHT features guitar and bass while the other two instruments sit back and don't really do much.

So what I propose is that some sort of subjective weighting system be implemented, in that each instrument has a different possible score. For a song like Enter Sandman, for example, guitar is definitely featured along with vocals, while bass and drums supply a repetitive backbeat. So maybe guitar and vocals could be worth 100 points each and drums and bass only 500 each.

Obviously I haven't thought this through to the finest detail but it's a start, and hopefully the rough examples give you an idea of what I'm after. I dunno how you could get a system like that to work, but that's why I'm posting for discussion.
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internetguy87  





Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 3505
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes DLC leagues! I need to have my huge credit card bills count for something! Also as for top 20 DLC thats a little limited in my mind. I am all for eliminating anything that is Tier 1 or Tier 2, or considered to be generally horrible songs, but there are a few things that make a DLC competition fun.

First off there are so many possible choices you don't know whats coming at you, and can allow for a lot of varity. Also, these are songs that people have not spent continuous hours perfecting, like the setlist, thus it can actually be fun playing them a few times for a league score. By making this only a list of 20 most played songs, they may as well be setlist, as you lose the fun of it being new and exciting. I am not saying don't take the top 20 either, I am just saying if its going to be DLC it should be DLC.

One idea however is that only DLC from the start day of leagues could be considered. Thus any new releases won't happen,. so people need simply be caught up, and never expected to buy anything new.

Would also like drum twists leagues again, since I just missed out last time on joining any leagues. Would also be happy to try to think of some new twists, however I am unsure which ones are used, so if possible to post a list, happy to think of a new idea.

As for another idea, I would enjoy a sort of "speed round" league. It would still be run over a week period, but the twist is that instead of getting the entire week to work on a few songs, you get only a short period, say 12 or 24 hours. Thus when you wanted to start at some point in the week, you would be able to login to a site, or somehow get the songs for the week, and you would have X amount of hours to report your score. This allows for people to still move around in the week to fit there schedules. I have a few ideas for how to allow access to the songs if there is support for this idea be happy to post them. Also, there is an issue of leaks, but since only people in the league could have access to the song, anyone who leaks would essentially be allowing his/her competitors to have a leg up on him.
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midgetspy  





Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dore wrote:
My main ideas are for the One Man Band league. Note that this is all my opinion and so assume a ", IMO" is at the end of every sentence

The fatal flaw with the system for the first season was that guitar counted too much. There are three distinct skill-sets involved in the One-Man-Band: guitar, drums, and vox. Each of these have their own style of playing (seeing as they're different instruments), their own style of pathing (fixed activation points or not, individual notes scored or phrases, etc.), and their own style of squeezing. The fundamental problem is that the guitar skill set counts just as much as the other two skill sets combined, which isn't fair.

A prime example I can think of is Beethoven's Cunt (I know it's DLC but it's a perfect example). Clearly, this song features drums and vocals. Vox have all kinds of weird, interesting stuff and drums have lots of rolls, quick hits, and interesting rhythms. But, if this song were to be in this league, being able to squeeze two very similar charts on guitar would weigh just as much as being able to master two difficult charts on two other instruments.

My first thought was that guitar and bass should be combined; each of the skill-sets (guitar/bass & vox & drums) would each count an even 33% of the scores. But this shafts the guitar specialists in that their main skill would require twice the pathing and squeezing to get the same amount of points as a drum or vox specialist.

So then I figured that the best system would be on a song-by-song basis. Most songs are pretty clear in which instruments are featured; everyone knows that DFTR is crazy on drums and that GGaHT features guitar and bass while the other two instruments sit back and don't really do much.

So what I propose is that some sort of subjective weighting system be implemented, in that each instrument has a different possible score. For a song like Enter Sandman, for example, guitar is definitely featured along with vocals, while bass and drums supply a repetitive backbeat. So maybe guitar and vocals could be worth 100 points each and drums and bass only 500 each.

Obviously I haven't thought this through to the finest detail but it's a start, and hopefully the rough examples give you an idea of what I'm after. I dunno how you could get a system like that to work, but that's why I'm posting for discussion.


Personally I think they should just drop bass completely from the one-man band league. This gives every song a perfect ratio between the 3 skillsets, and there's no (on-disc) song I can think of where the bass track is more fun/interesting than the guitar track so I don't think we're missing much by dropping it. From the game's standpoint (not a musical standpoint) by including bass you're just adding a 2nd guitar track that's easier than the main one, and if you think of it that way it makes total sense to drop it IMO.
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jerridthomas79  





Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 1266
Location: South Dakota

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By scoring all parts (Guitar, Bass, Drums, Vocals) separate, placing everyone, then awarding points keeps the total score bias out.

As nivlac and I did in our rivalry - Link to Website
We had "Spotlight Weeks" giving each part 100pts, and the spotlight part 125pts

We did like this idea, and if OMB is in again for S10 - can be talked about I'm sure.

Just by reading these posts, it seems obvious OMB is a popular "return pick"...?

Personally - I did like the overall way S9 OMB was run, but would welcome "spotlight weeks" or another type of "bonus" for featured parts

EDIT:
midgetspy wrote:

Personally I think they should just drop bass completely from the one-man band league. This gives every song a perfect ratio between the 3 skillsets, and there's no (on-disc) song I can think of where the bass track is more fun/interesting than the guitar track so I don't think we're missing much by dropping it. From the game's standpoint (not a musical standpoint) by including bass you're just adding a 2nd guitar track that's easier than the main one, and if you think of it that way it makes total sense to drop it IMO.


Actually - I would agree to do this also.
Not a fan of bass ('cept on a certain FEW songs) - don't hate me for it
But this would clearly make the OMB a competition among the 3 disciplines of RB - with giving "credit in the form of points" to elite plastar players
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