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Rock Band 4 & Rock Band 3 DLC/Import Vocal Paths
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elcanadiano  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Posts: 225
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singemfrc wrote:
No not always, because there are certainly instances where 99% of the phrase is before the window, just a little speck is after, and you know for sure that you cannot ESF it, and therefore it's an ESP. In instances like the above where it's really close and you can never get it, but who knows someone else might be able to, that's just ES. ESP is really only for the situation where you're absolutely certain it's impossible. If in doubt, just use ES.

Personally, I agree with the Dream Genie issue..I hate when technically it's an ESF because one person got it, but it's basically impossible, then I spend hours trying to get it in vain. I half-wish there were a better way to indicate it, but I really don't want to complicate the notation any more than we have to.

On a side note, I was thinking about creating some video tutorials that show how to end squeeze and/or explain various notations. For certain items in the key I might put a little video icon next to it so new users can click it and see an example of that notation being used. If anyone either wants to submit a video or suggest an idea, let me know.


My argument about ESP/ES being the same thing really is about is there any value in explicitly saying you can "never" get an ESF in a certain point? Dream Genie is going to be one where, yeah, it's tough. In all my attempts I may have gotten the ESF on that one twice in 50-60 practice mode attempts, and I have yet to make a score with an ESF on that song, but it's technically possible, and I definitely believe (at least on your/my side on PS4) that eldersham and others have pulled it off already just looking at their scores.

But on the flip side, I would dare say that declaring ESP can often be bad/misleading. I resubmitted a path for Take Me To The River, where I changed two ESPs to ESFs. I would personally say the first one might be tough (I got an ESF in practice mode 40-50% of the time), but that second one is definitely doable. I don't really see much need on adding much more notation to indicate a difficult ESF (ESF* I think is sufficient). But granted that could be because of RB4 vs. RB3, and I do personally think squeezing and ESFs in general are easier in Rock Band 4 (particularly songs with Freestyle Vocals), but I could be wrong - I'm probably also much better now at that than in 2014. I did do two videos in the past with respect to scorechasing, some of them (particularly the older of the two) may have techniques which I no longer use. I still do that "shaky" thing for vibrato.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USnOynrLuq0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY2pFv2xwx4

Granted my "endorsement" on eldersham's comments (if this wasn't fully clear) had more to do with how his path for Sunday Bloody Sunday was changed to a different one whereby the one activation was different, yielded no new points, yet the other path author took full credit for the updated path, and the ES vs. ESP was more of an addendum.

ItsUncleCarl wrote:
Honestly I would compare score chasing to something like speed running, there are incredibly hard frame perfect tricks that will save time (or in this case score) but if you can't nail it then you'd take the next best option, if an ESF is incredibly hard for you then you may opt to hit a 90% ESP, it may cost you 400 points but that's the sacrifice you make for not being able to hit it for whatever reason.


I like this comparison, although scorechasing can often be more comparable to smaller categories.
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singemfrc  
 




Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 4072
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elcanadiano wrote:
My argument about ESP/ES being the same thing really is about is there any value in explicitly saying you can "never" get an ESF in a certain point? Dream Genie is going to be one where, yeah, it's tough. In all my attempts I may have gotten the ESF on that one twice in 50-60 practice mode attempts, and I have yet to make a score with an ESF on that song, but it's technically possible, and I definitely believe (at least on your/my side on PS4) that eldersham and others have pulled it off already just looking at their scores.

But on the flip side, I would dare say that declaring ESP can often be bad/misleading. I resubmitted a path for Take Me To The River, where I changed two ESPs to ESFs. I would personally say the first one might be tough (I got an ESF in practice mode 40-50% of the time), but that second one is definitely doable. I don't really see much need on adding much more notation to indicate a difficult ESF (ESF* I think is sufficient). But granted that could be because of RB4 vs. RB3, and I do personally think squeezing and ESFs in general are easier in Rock Band 4 (particularly songs with Freestyle Vocals), but I could be wrong - I'm probably also much better now at that than in 2014. I did do two videos in the past with respect to scorechasing, some of them (particularly the older of the two) may have techniques which I no longer use. I still do that "shaky" thing for vibrato
Yes there is value in it because it warns you ahead of time not to bother wasting time trying to get the full thing, but like everything else it depends on the author of the path. It's supposed to be only when you are sure that there is *no* chance of getting the full phrase and isnt even close, so if you changed some ESPs to ESFs whoever did that path originally didn't do a good job.

And I'm not arguing we remove the ESF notation, that's asinine. Just thinking out loud that I wish there were some way of knowing how hard one really is, because some people say "Ah its easy" when for a lot of people it's virtually impossible. I don't think any changes should be made right now. It would be nice if I had more information about how hard it was for me to get the ESF, but that would require cluttering the paths up to an extent that would make them all harder to read and write on the whole, so it's better to leave them as is.
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eldersham  
 




Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starlight: 2/sk1, 2/sk1, 3/, 2/ (eldersham)
202k and change, seems no feasible cap

When Legends Rise: 4/BOD (eldersham)
seems like 137148 after a couple tries
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elcanadiano  
 




Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Posts: 225
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's My Life (Bon Jovi): 2/, 2/sk1, 2/, 2/ES1F (Benjaxlax5)

Renotation.
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Roger123425  
 




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kids in America- 4/sk1, 4/ (96 points) (RonnieAguilar, Roger123425, iHeartKakashi, IlluminatiThrone)

confirmed my path is definitely way better
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ItsUncleCarl  
 




Joined: 12 Apr 2018
Posts: 98
Location: Hereford, England

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adding FRS detail
So Lonely: 2/, 4/FRS, 4/sk1 (Iggy-Sparks) [FRS: Just after phrase line]


Can someone verify this change I propose:
3rd act should be 4/sk1-ES1F not below
Power And The Passion: 2/, 3/sk1-ESF, 4/sk2-ESF, 2/sk1 (TheGameGuy)

I started singing after sk1 and both following windows are same phrase or perhaps it's just 4/ES2F
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