Too much effort?

[LucasPWNS8907]

Hello everyone in the keys forums. This is my first time coming over here. I thought I'd come to visit to ask a question. After reading several postings on here, it seems like most people are kind of getting the hang of pro keys. I have been very discouraged by keys since they've been out. I've never really liked the interface that they've chosen and like a lot of people around here, I definitely would have opted for sheet music instead of the bullshit chart that's on screen. I've spent hours looking at the trainers both for individual songs and the general pro keys trainers. I've even played a variety of songs, fumbling around trying to get some kind of a feel for the instrument.

But all of this is to no avail. I simply can't seem to "get it". Anything I want to FC I spend hours grinding (yes, HOURS grinding 0 and 1 dot songs). I would like to get to a point of comfortably playing maybe 3 dot songs or so, but at the current rate, it doesn't seem like I'll ever get there. So, what I'm getting at is, did it ever just "click" one day for the rest of you keys players with no piano background? Is it worth me investing all this time into something that I struggle with so much or should I just give up hope? Please don't give me inflated answers to try and make me feel better or whatever. I just want the straight truth.
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[LucasPWNS8907]

Hello everyone in the keys forums. This is my first time coming over here. I thought I'd come to visit to ask a question. After reading several postings on here, it seems like most people are kind of getting the hang of pro keys. I have been very discouraged by keys since they've been out. I've never really liked the interface that they've chosen and like a lot of people around here, I definitely would have opted for sheet music instead of the bullshit chart that's on screen. I've spent hours looking at the trainers both for individual songs and the general pro keys trainers. I've even played a variety of songs, fumbling around trying to get some kind of a feel for the instrument.

But all of this is to no avail. I simply can't seem to "get it". Anything I want to FC I spend hours grinding (yes, HOURS grinding 0 and 1 dot songs). I would like to get to a point of comfortably playing maybe 3 dot songs or so, but at the current rate, it doesn't seem like I'll ever get there. So, what I'm getting at is, did it ever just "click" one day for the rest of you keys players with no piano background? Is it worth me investing all this time into something that I struggle with so much or should I just give up hope? Please don't give me inflated answers to try and make me feel better or whatever. I just want the straight truth.
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[megallica]

i had a bit of trouble with the way Pro Keys charts are displayed on screen at first too

the color coding only shows which region to play in, and you have to pick out which key it is based on where it's at, which can be tough to do at first

i can say that you definitely will get used to it if you keep playing, if that's what you're worried about

it's just like typing, once you get comfortable with it, you won't need to look at the keyboard or think about it, your fingers will just know what key they're on, and it'll be more about the complexity and speed of the chart than reading it

at first, memorization, practice, and utilizing the trainers and practice mode will probably help you learn songs as quickly as possible

if you're worried about not progressing as quickly as you think you should, you might want to keep in mind that they didn't intend for people with little or no prior piano experience to just jump into Expert Pro Keys immediately and excel at it (even though some people have, you shouldn't feel like that's typical, because it isn't). don't be afraid to use the lower difficulties to help you adjust to the interface or build your skill level to a point that you can comfortably play most songs on expert

and, as far as the difficulty you're having playing "3 dot songs", you should know that i was regularly failing out of solid and moderate (3 dot and 4 dot) songs even after i FCed 10 or 15 of the on disc songs

the difficulty curve on the main setlist is pretty steep, largely because there are fewer songs with Pro Keys parts, so there aren't enough songs to build the difficulty up gradually

if you really want to learn, you can. just don't expect it to come overnight
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My Accomplishments Thread: FIRST EVER Rehab Pro OMBFC!!! 57/63 RB3 Pro Keys FCs!!

[megallica]

i had a bit of trouble with the way Pro Keys charts are displayed on screen at first too

the color coding only shows which region to play in, and you have to pick out which key it is based on where it's at, which can be tough to do at first

i can say that you definitely will get used to it if you keep playing, if that's what you're worried about

it's just like typing, once you get comfortable with it, you won't need to look at the keyboard or think about it, your fingers will just know what key they're on, and it'll be more about the complexity and speed of the chart than reading it

at first, memorization, practice, and utilizing the trainers and practice mode will probably help you learn songs as quickly as possible

if you're worried about not progressing as quickly as you think you should, you might want to keep in mind that they didn't intend for people with little or no prior piano experience to just jump into Expert Pro Keys immediately and excel at it (even though some people have, you shouldn't feel like that's typical, because it isn't). don't be afraid to use the lower difficulties to help you adjust to the interface or build your skill level to a point that you can comfortably play most songs on expert

and, as far as the difficulty you're having playing "3 dot songs", you should know that i was regularly failing out of solid and moderate (3 dot and 4 dot) songs even after i FCed 10 or 15 of the on disc songs

the difficulty curve on the main setlist is pretty steep, largely because there are fewer songs with Pro Keys parts, so there aren't enough songs to build the difficulty up gradually

if you really want to learn, you can. just don't expect it to come overnight
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My Accomplishments Thread: FIRST EVER Rehab Pro OMBFC!!! 57/63 RB3 Pro Keys FCs!!

[Iggy-Sparks]

My advice is that you try playing in Hard difficulty, it's less notes and less accurate for sure, but that was really easier for me to follow on hard cause it's slower! So that way you can get used to the gameplay easier.

An other thing you can do is having an other instrument besides that plays in easy, but I think that would cancel all unisson bonus :/ and I don't think vocals has a speed based on difficulty.

Well I'm not a pro keyboardist, only have 2 years piano experience and not more than 20 FCs but that is my advice and what helped me get better on pro keys.
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[Iggy-Sparks]

My advice is that you try playing in Hard difficulty, it's less notes and less accurate for sure, but that was really easier for me to follow on hard cause it's slower! So that way you can get used to the gameplay easier.

An other thing you can do is having an other instrument besides that plays in easy, but I think that would cancel all unisson bonus :/ and I don't think vocals has a speed based on difficulty.

Well I'm not a pro keyboardist, only have 2 years piano experience and not more than 20 FCs but that is my advice and what helped me get better on pro keys.
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[Skyp1e]

This might sound silly or insulting, but please don't take it that way.

I was very frustrated with PRO keys when I first started playing until I got a guitar to auto calibrate my settings. Then things went smooth as glass.

Could it simply be a calibration issue for you too?

[Skyp1e]

This might sound silly or insulting, but please don't take it that way.

I was very frustrated with PRO keys when I first started playing until I got a guitar to auto calibrate my settings. Then things went smooth as glass.

Could it simply be a calibration issue for you too?

[LucasPWNS8907]

@Skyp1e,
I'm certain it's not a calibration issue. I may need to adjust it a little but I know my calibration is pretty spot on from playing guitar, bass, vox, and drums. I do have the RB2 guitar that auto calibrates as well and that's how I came up with the numbers I have. It's a good starting point but it's not perfect so I had to tweak it a little and I'm sure once I get more proficient at pro keys, I might need to tweak it more for that particular instrument since the interface is so different.

I guess I should try the lower difficulties as training ground before I throw in the towel. It certainly should be easier to read because it scrolls more slowly. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll report back after a while of testing the waters on hard.
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[LucasPWNS8907]

@Skyp1e,
I'm certain it's not a calibration issue. I may need to adjust it a little but I know my calibration is pretty spot on from playing guitar, bass, vox, and drums. I do have the RB2 guitar that auto calibrates as well and that's how I came up with the numbers I have. It's a good starting point but it's not perfect so I had to tweak it a little and I'm sure once I get more proficient at pro keys, I might need to tweak it more for that particular instrument since the interface is so different.

I guess I should try the lower difficulties as training ground before I throw in the towel. It certainly should be easier to read because it scrolls more slowly. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll report back after a while of testing the waters on hard.
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[Skyp1e]

Okay then.

Well I can tell you that you do get very used to the highway for keys eventually. I too was bummed that it wasn't right to left scrolling or even better yet sheet music. I spent most of my life playing piano and sheet music is how I learn songs.

However, now that I am accustomed to the highway I really enjoy reading music this way. I can even get FCs on sightread sometimes (when I'm lucky).

I would suggest sticking to warm up songs for a while and progress through them at a pace you enjoy (if you can jump right into expert on a song do it, if you need to start from easy and work your way up do that. Mix and match as applicable).

The thing that a lot of people need to learn how to do is play without looking at their fingers. Following that above prescription should get you comfortable and develop the muscle memory to do just that.

Once you can pretty much tell what you're supposed to play and send the right commands for that to your hands the rest becomes a simple "can you play this?" issue for every song.

Unless you have problems with your hands (for example I have wrist issues due to injuries suffered when I was younger) and songs like Du Hast and Antibodies rain holy hell on my right hand (all I use to play BTW) because of that.

So, if you have arthritis or something like that, if your fingers are simply not long enough to play five notes within an octave or some other physical issue prevents you from actually playing something, it all boils down to practice. To put it bluntly, repetition.

Also if notes are flying by you too fast then refer to the trainer/practice.

If notes are STILL going too fast you can do what I do.

Play only one note at a time per pass and add the next note to that once you've got the first note down. Keep adding one note at a time until you learn the whole passage. My son is only 5 and uses the same method on keys when he learns songs and he's gotten surprisingly good by doing that. His hands are of course way too small to play most songs on expert, but he does play some songs on expert and this is how he learns them.

Hope this helps you.

[Skyp1e]

Okay then.

Well I can tell you that you do get very used to the highway for keys eventually. I too was bummed that it wasn't right to left scrolling or even better yet sheet music. I spent most of my life playing piano and sheet music is how I learn songs.

However, now that I am accustomed to the highway I really enjoy reading music this way. I can even get FCs on sightread sometimes (when I'm lucky).

I would suggest sticking to warm up songs for a while and progress through them at a pace you enjoy (if you can jump right into expert on a song do it, if you need to start from easy and work your way up do that. Mix and match as applicable).

The thing that a lot of people need to learn how to do is play without looking at their fingers. Following that above prescription should get you comfortable and develop the muscle memory to do just that.

Once you can pretty much tell what you're supposed to play and send the right commands for that to your hands the rest becomes a simple "can you play this?" issue for every song.

Unless you have problems with your hands (for example I have wrist issues due to injuries suffered when I was younger) and songs like Du Hast and Antibodies rain holy hell on my right hand (all I use to play BTW) because of that.

So, if you have arthritis or something like that, if your fingers are simply not long enough to play five notes within an octave or some other physical issue prevents you from actually playing something, it all boils down to practice. To put it bluntly, repetition.

Also if notes are flying by you too fast then refer to the trainer/practice.

If notes are STILL going too fast you can do what I do.

Play only one note at a time per pass and add the next note to that once you've got the first note down. Keep adding one note at a time until you learn the whole passage. My son is only 5 and uses the same method on keys when he learns songs and he's gotten surprisingly good by doing that. His hands are of course way too small to play most songs on expert, but he does play some songs on expert and this is how he learns them.

Hope this helps you.

[sycocoaster]

When I first bought the game I found it incredibly difficult. Every song was a chore to play because I couldn't read the notation quickly enough. It took weeks before I was able to pass all the songs. All I can say is that it gets easier, but it takes a large investment of time. Even all my previous piano experience was of little to no help while I was still learning how to interpret the notation as it is. If you stick with it, it will just click. You won't know when or anything, but it will become significantly easier once that happens.
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DLC Quickplay

[sycocoaster]

When I first bought the game I found it incredibly difficult. Every song was a chore to play because I couldn't read the notation quickly enough. It took weeks before I was able to pass all the songs. All I can say is that it gets easier, but it takes a large investment of time. Even all my previous piano experience was of little to no help while I was still learning how to interpret the notation as it is. If you stick with it, it will just click. You won't know when or anything, but it will become significantly easier once that happens.
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DLC Quickplay

[malkieriking]

About two weeks into playing Pro Keys, it took me a good 3 hours to FC Whip It.

There's no such thing as too much effort when it comes to these Pro instruments in my mind. You are learning something that can be applied to real life if you so choose, and if you are having fun with it (for some reason I seem to think my chokes are funny from time to time; you should've seen me go for Misery Business Pro Bass), then you really aren't giving too much effort.

Take your progress with a grain of salt. There are multiple songs on Pro Bass which I've spent well over 10 hours on (Misery Business, MidLife Crisis, and Get Up, Stand Up). The majority of my FCs took over 3 hours.

Pro Keys hasn't been much different either. Heart of Glass, which has like 150 notes at the most, took me 3 hours. I have several chokes on The Killing Moon, which I've spent about 5 hours on. Whip It and SMIYTYHTOB took me 2-3 a piece. Just Like Heaven took me about 5 due to chokes and misses everywhere.

Basically, if you want to struggle through, just make some fun out of it. Unless you can laugh at everything like I do (I make fun of my guitar pick when I miss stupid things on Pro Bass, for example) or have incredible patience and don't get mad at the game, never spend more than an hour at a time on a song before moving on. Use No-Fail and play things way over your head to see what you can pick up out of them; you may be surprised. Keep variety in your play, and don't be stressing out when things don't go perfectly. Even the most calm, patient person can be driven mad if he does the same thing for hours on end with no success and not having any fun.

Play for fun, especially at first. The when you stop having fun, you throw your keyboard at the wall. When you throw your keyboard at the wall, it creates strange noises. When you create strange noises, your neighbors call the police. When your neighbors call the police, you get taken to jail for no apparent reason. When you get taken to jail, the big men want to have gay sex. Don't have gay sex in jail. Just have fun when you play RB3 Pro Keys.
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zage1337, in my accomplishments thread wrote:

Ever since I started Blitz I played the silver ball From Thrasher down to One Vision, I've must've played them all but you aint seen nothing like him in any song at all that malkieriking SURE PLAYS A MEAN PINBALL

[malkieriking]

About two weeks into playing Pro Keys, it took me a good 3 hours to FC Whip It.

There's no such thing as too much effort when it comes to these Pro instruments in my mind. You are learning something that can be applied to real life if you so choose, and if you are having fun with it (for some reason I seem to think my chokes are funny from time to time; you should've seen me go for Misery Business Pro Bass), then you really aren't giving too much effort.

Take your progress with a grain of salt. There are multiple songs on Pro Bass which I've spent well over 10 hours on (Misery Business, MidLife Crisis, and Get Up, Stand Up). The majority of my FCs took over 3 hours.

Pro Keys hasn't been much different either. Heart of Glass, which has like 150 notes at the most, took me 3 hours. I have several chokes on The Killing Moon, which I've spent about 5 hours on. Whip It and SMIYTYHTOB took me 2-3 a piece. Just Like Heaven took me about 5 due to chokes and misses everywhere.

Basically, if you want to struggle through, just make some fun out of it. Unless you can laugh at everything like I do (I make fun of my guitar pick when I miss stupid things on Pro Bass, for example) or have incredible patience and don't get mad at the game, never spend more than an hour at a time on a song before moving on. Use No-Fail and play things way over your head to see what you can pick up out of them; you may be surprised. Keep variety in your play, and don't be stressing out when things don't go perfectly. Even the most calm, patient person can be driven mad if he does the same thing for hours on end with no success and not having any fun.

Play for fun, especially at first. The when you stop having fun, you throw your keyboard at the wall. When you throw your keyboard at the wall, it creates strange noises. When you create strange noises, your neighbors call the police. When your neighbors call the police, you get taken to jail for no apparent reason. When you get taken to jail, the big men want to have gay sex. Don't have gay sex in jail. Just have fun when you play RB3 Pro Keys.
_________________

zage1337, in my accomplishments thread wrote:

Ever since I started Blitz I played the silver ball From Thrasher down to One Vision, I've must've played them all but you aint seen nothing like him in any song at all that malkieriking SURE PLAYS A MEAN PINBALL

[shik4maru]

The most important thing is indeed being able to be humble, and not necessarily trying to FC. I think I played for maybe 6 months before actually trying to FC songs (that doesn’t mean I didn’t get some, I was just not after that). You’ll gradually become better as time goes by. Try playing on hard first, even medium for the hardest songs, and give yourself reachable goals, like 3 stars on every song on medium, then 4 stars, then 4 stars on hard. You’ll be surprised to see that you’ll get used to the way notes are displayed, and you’ll get muscle memory to play these songs

look at this graph:
friends’ progression

this is a friend of mine. He started on medium (red squares). Notice how green square replace it at some point, where he managed to get more songs passed on hard. This is what you should aim for IMHO

[shik4maru]

The most important thing is indeed being able to be humble, and not necessarily trying to FC. I think I played for maybe 6 months before actually trying to FC songs (that doesn’t mean I didn’t get some, I was just not after that). You’ll gradually become better as time goes by. Try playing on hard first, even medium for the hardest songs, and give yourself reachable goals, like 3 stars on every song on medium, then 4 stars, then 4 stars on hard. You’ll be surprised to see that you’ll get used to the way notes are displayed, and you’ll get muscle memory to play these songs

look at this graph:
friends’ progression

this is a friend of mine. He started on medium (red squares). Notice how green square replace it at some point, where he managed to get more songs passed on hard. This is what you should aim for IMHO

[mridlen]

Keys is hard. I haven't even 5-starred Medium Pro Keys yet, and I've been playing for about 6 months solid (about 2 hours per day, 5 days per week). I just recently cleared 5-star Hard Keys. I do have to say that jumping around between playing Keys, Pro Keys, Keys Bass, and Keys Guitar is very helpful in building certain skills and hand patterns. Also, playing with my left hand for a change up. I also suggest knocking out the easiest goals first (i.e. beat it on easy first).

[mridlen]

Keys is hard. I haven't even 5-starred Medium Pro Keys yet, and I've been playing for about 6 months solid (about 2 hours per day, 5 days per week). I just recently cleared 5-star Hard Keys. I do have to say that jumping around between playing Keys, Pro Keys, Keys Bass, and Keys Guitar is very helpful in building certain skills and hand patterns. Also, playing with my left hand for a change up. I also suggest knocking out the easiest goals first (i.e. beat it on easy first).

[Koetsu]

I feel like I've made substantial progress, especially coming from no piano or key, let alone music background to start with. It really is comparable to typing on a computer keyboard. The other day, I was really just casually playing 2-4-tiered songs on Hard and Expert without even realizing that No Fail mode was off. I think regular Keys helps with hand position and speed while Pro is similar, but expands to many more keys.

[Koetsu]

I feel like I've made substantial progress, especially coming from no piano or key, let alone music background to start with. It really is comparable to typing on a computer keyboard. The other day, I was really just casually playing 2-4-tiered songs on Hard and Expert without even realizing that No Fail mode was off. I think regular Keys helps with hand position and speed while Pro is similar, but expands to many more keys.