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sukergod 
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 3437
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
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 Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Well i had 32 points left over from my GH2/80 days and dropped them all on The Complexity of Light since it maybe be the best chart and song ever to grace Rock Band. Its pure brilliance 
Hey at least we get to contribute in some way. Im sure some other alternative ways of getting points will come up and then this wont be a problem at all.
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PiemanLK
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 4711
Location: /export/home
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Barfo wrote: | | YOU are missing the point, DUDE. I have absurd number of points because of the tens and probably hundred+ hours i put in doing proofing back in the day*. Im not saying you need to put in that hundred+ hours like i did, i specifically ran the numbers and pointed out that even if people with zero points right now, instead of whinging got off their ass and spent a few hours doing some narrowing/proofs (of GH3 and GHA songs on their console of choice, both of htose have no fail so its not too hard) theyd have enough points to contribute as a factor in getting several songs they wanted activated. |
I have never had to contribute proofs to input my other 3000+ scores and I will not start now. If JC wants to have a monopoly on RA songs under the guise of "preventing useless leaderboards" (I'm sure SO many people play Polly on drums...), that's fine, but I'm not going to pay contribution point ransom to enter my scores. I'll use Notepad, thank you very much.
Apologies if I sound rude here, I'm just not very happy that I can't enter any of my RBN scores and it seems like the only people that don't have a problem with this are the people with a lot of points. 
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[quote=''Otend'']Id come up with a long post, but Pieman said what we are all thinking, as usual[/quote]
[quote=''youhas'']EDIT TO ADD: Hey, post #3000! Neat! I will eagerly anticipate my set of ScoreHero-branded steak knives within six to eight weeks.[/quote]
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fmadmonk
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| blingdomepiece wrote: | | fmadmonk wrote: | | You don't have to own a song to put in a score. Just make up some numbers that is of a level of performance that nobody would question (4 or low-5 stars) and nothing to it. This would not stop dishonest members from getting 'free' contribution points for their own songs. |
Which, if discovered, is grounds for an account ban. I somehow don't see people doing this. |
Nothing wrong with optimism I suppose. Manfred had the best solution to my concerns, and even that had a few minor issues (people not owning a camera or simply not wishing to partake in such an inconvenience).
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ManfredvonKarma 
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 3783
Location: Toms River, NJ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Noticed a slight issue with the contribution system:
| List of Contributors for Code Monkey wrote: | | qirex, Barfo, ravagetalon, ajanata, b08smith, BriGuy, Barfo, ManfredvonKarma, tidwell, DaneH, PD527, DemonHybrid |
As you can see, the system does not combine multiple donations from one user, but rather treats them as separate entities. I'm sure it's not going to come into play often, but it is a tad bit annoying to see a name twice, and it also has the potential to not give someone top contributor status when they earned it.
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DrSham 
Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 1233
Location: Hallett Cove, South Australia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| sukergod wrote: | | Well i had 32 points left over from my GH2/80 days and dropped them all on The Complexity of Light since it maybe be the best chart and song ever to grace Rock Band. Its pure brilliance |
Hey suker, been a while.
I've still got some left so in the spirit of friendship and all that happy bollocks it's yours.
Merry Xmas
P.S. Davor is still shite!
Oh, and I also threw the remaining 36 pts needed at Code Monkey to get that enabled as well. I've got 24 left so if anyone has a preference as to what to use them for then let me know.
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ManfredvonKarma
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 3783
Location: Toms River, NJ
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:28 am Post subject: |
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A bit more information now that Code Monkey is available for scoretracking.
This was the list I saw when viewing the leaderboard:
qirex, Barfo, DrSham, ravagetalon, ajanata, b08smith, Barfo, BriGuy, Barfo, ManfredvonKarma, Barfo, tidwell, Barfo, DaneH, sonicdude164, PD527, DemonHybrid
The list changes when you refresh the page, as well (though I'm not sure if that isn't intentional).
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SakuraSylph
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 58
Location: Honolulu, HI
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm actually shocked that the Rock Band Network songs are an issue at all. ScoreHero makes leaderboards for every DLC song, regardless of whether anybody cares about that song or not. I figured we'd get the same quick updating (adding songs right away) and complete list that I have come to expect based on the DLC.
I'm ashamed to see that we aren't at the moment.
| ManfredvonKarma wrote: | | JCirri owns RhythmAuthors and ScoreHero. It's in his best interest business-wise to keep the free advertising that score-tracking allows down to mostly the tracks that will make him money. |
Wait, what? That's the reason we aren't just adding all songs to the database? My, my... That doesn't look very good in my opinion. We can't really talk about "loving our community" and give special perks to an insider for-profit business at the same time. It is fine to own a business, but really, a fansite such as ScoreHero needs to be separate and impartial. |
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bclare
Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 6048
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| SakuraSylph wrote: | I'm actually shocked that the Rock Band Network songs are an issue at all. ScoreHero makes leaderboards for every DLC song, regardless of whether anybody cares about that song or not. I figured we'd get the same quick updating (adding songs right away) and complete list that I have come to expect based on the DLC.
I'm ashamed to see that we aren't at the moment.
| ManfredvonKarma wrote: | | JCirri owns RhythmAuthors and ScoreHero. It's in his best interest business-wise to keep the free advertising that score-tracking allows down to mostly the tracks that will make him money. |
Wait, what? That's the reason we aren't just adding all songs to the database? My, my... That doesn't look very good in my opinion. We can't really talk about "loving our community" and give special perks to an insider for-profit business at the same time. It is fine to own a business, but really, a fansite such as ScoreHero needs to be separate and impartial. |
Considering the quantity of songs already on RBN, and the additional songs that will be made available (especially if the songs are popular enough and more bands get into it) I don't think it's reasonable to expect full score-tracking for all RBN songs.
I see your point about the conflict of interest with JCirri, but there isn't really much we can do about that. There's no divine right to free online score-tracking (and forums, and wiki, etc) that ScoreHero provides just for on-disc and HMX-authored DLC, so it's not reasonable for us to feel like we are owed score-tracking for every one of the hundreds (or more) of songs that will be on RBN.
Also, and I can't verify anything about this, but I don't think that RhythmAuthors is exactly making a ton of money off of RBN. They're definitely making some, but SH is a very big website that hosts a lot of data, and though there are some ads they definitely aren't plastered all over the place. I seem to recall that in JCirri's initial post announcing RBN (and RhythmAuthors) that a lot of the profits will be going towards SH hosting costs and such. Keep in mind also that there are a bunch of people working on charting songs, and that it's probably quite time-consuming. I also don't think that the authors see any money until after the song is actually approved, in the store, and sold, meaning that man-hours have been spent (and are being spent) authoring songs that get stuck in peer-review for weeks before they can create any revenue.
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iammax
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 438
Location: Westchester, NY
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Even if we're going to stick with this stupid "unlocking songs" business, I still don't see why not all songs count in the "songs passed 2 stars 3 stars" etc summary on top. It's not like regular DLC where not everybody has the RA songs; everyone has their own set. They should all count, IMO.
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JCirri
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4576
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| iammax wrote: | | Even if we're going to stick with this stupid "unlocking songs" business, I still don't see why not all songs count in the "songs passed 2 stars 3 stars" etc summary on top. It's not like regular DLC where not everybody has the RA songs; everyone has their own set. They should all count, IMO. |
This is why we want to have a more focused set of songs for at least some people to compete much like any other disc-based game. Otherwise with no focus at all the overall totals would not be competitive but would be more "information only", similar to the tracking on this wiki page.
Also to be clear, Rhythm Authors does not get money for every purchase of the songs that we promoting for free. In several cases we're paid upfront and the royalties earned go 100% to the artist, band or label. We just want to help promote our clients as best we can; offering free score-tracking on ScoreHero while serving to satisfy the goal of having a focused set of songs for overall competition seemed the logical choice.
| sextypething wrote: | | Just keep taking donations as donations, please, please, please, don't require donations as a part of this. Once server costs and maintenance costs outweigh the balance, then you can start taking drastic measures, but as far as I know (unless I'm mistaken), I'm sure the servers could handle tracking these scores. |
While this motive is absolutely not the primary reason for the system, I won't lie to say that I am thankful and relieved to see donations picking up as a result. ScoreHero's absolute bare minimal operating expense is about $600 a month (only counting electricity and server expense; the reality is higher). Donations combined with advertising revenues have not exceeded that for quite a while, yet we still opt out of having pop-ups and interstitial ad placements and always work to report/remove any ads that you find obtrusive to your browsing experience because they annoy you (and us too) and we understand that.
If things kept up at the current rate, a donation drive would have been necessary fairly soon just to keep SH running stable. So this might be just what was needed to spark interest for more people to contribute to the site while earning the ability to collectively decide the future of RBN on SH. This goes without saying that while donations are always optional and not expected, for us to just break even on our expenses means no compensation for the many hours spent towards the site, both on behalf on myself and the rest of the volunteer ScoreHero team.
| SakuraSylph wrote: | | Wait, what? That's the reason we aren't just adding all songs to the database? My, my... That doesn't look very good in my opinion. We can't really talk about "loving our community" and give special perks to an insider for-profit business at the same time. It is fine to own a business, but really, a fansite such as ScoreHero needs to be separate and impartial. |
It's unfortunate that even a fansite such as this requires significant money to run.
| bclare wrote: | | Also, and I can't verify anything about this, but I don't think that RhythmAuthors is exactly making a ton of money off of RBN. They're definitely making some, but SH is a very big website that hosts a lot of data, and though there are some ads they definitely aren't plastered all over the place. I seem to recall that in JCirri's initial post announcing RBN (and RhythmAuthors) that a lot of the profits will be going towards SH hosting costs and such. |
So far, Rhythm Authors financially-speaking has been nothing but a HUGE expense to the SH funds that we've to date nowhere near recovered.
Before we were legally able to share what the RBN was, we took an early gamble to invest some SH funds to startup Rhythm Authors in hopes to deliver products in return that you would enjoy (i.e. having a wide range of enjoyable RB content available to play). For this to succeed in the longrun it involves making sure it's worthwhile to the 20+ team members doing work with us on a business/non-volunteer basis.
Having been contacted originally by Harmonix through ScoreHero, and using SH funds to start the company, it makes sense for us to promote our presence here now that RBN has launched.
Many have taken on a job with us on zero guarantees and are hoping it works out. I would like nothing more than to see the overall RBN business model involving third-party authoring groups succeed as a whole to continue to provide much quality content to everyone years down the line just like day one. Some of our team had actually just got together over the weekend for a RA launch party and had a huge blast playing other non-RA tracks that we'll soon be posting up some videos for.
We help out other creators on the creator's site on a daily basis through advice, workshop videos, and song playtests/reviews, and have no intent to use SH to monopolize anything. It's simply one advantage we have to offer our clients for free, while others can still be tracked, but either for a cost or by community demand if popular and wanted enough.
While we'll promote our work on the sites we control, we in no way wish to under-promote any other tracks in RBN. But there needs to be some limitations and a community-driven system to filter which are tracked. Aside from the separate tiering and stat totals, we are opening up all of RA's capabilities on SH to other groups and/or artists wishing to promote their tracks like our own via names appearing as a link and having total control over their songs' preview links for a discount over the community cost.
I really hope to have SH as a place open for all to promote music on RBN and for everyone to see what's available, discover what they like, and help decide what they'd like to see for score-tracking.
Potential changes for the enabling system are still being discussed however and will very likely be made in the near future. I just had to respond to the discussion on our business motives which are not true at all.
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BigZ7337
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 2022
Location: Williamsport, PA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: |
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I completely understand JCirri, but it's just disappointing as a Rock Band addict and lover of the scorehero leaderboards that close to 80% of the scores I have from RBN songs will never be posted. The current scoretracking is pitiful and that just sucks. Unless the current model is changed, about 95% of the RBN songs will never be represented on the leaderboards. I mean you take the time to put all of the songs up on the store page, how tough would it be to move them to the leaderboards?
At least for the launch of RBN, you should have done something to have more songs available. It would have been very easy to set up a poll (even though they're illegal on SH  ) and have a max of 10 songs for each SH member to vote on. Then after the results are posted, you take the top 30-60 songs and add them to the leaderboards. That would be easy, efficient, and it would involve the community. You could still have the store for the other songs (with less points required please) and then every month have another poll set up.
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iammax
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 438
Location: Westchester, NY
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:16 am Post subject: |
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I understand that sites cost money to run, but I think forcing us to pay to do what the site is meant for (score tracking) is the wrong way to go about it. You might as well start charging for accounts.
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JCirri
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4576
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:53 am Post subject: |
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I fully agree with the principles behind both of the above posts, and it is very likely there will be a alternative method to enable songs involving some form of polling to be available for all members to complement the existing system. In addition to this, the capability of point refunds will allow for better pooling of resources without fear of "wasting" points.
Ultimately no matter what we come up with won't satisfy and benefit everyone. But I do agree that more possibilities need to be made.
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BigZ7337
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 2022
Location: Williamsport, PA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| JCirri wrote: | I fully agree with the principles behind both of the above posts, and it is very likely there will be a alternative method to enable songs involving some form of polling to be available for all members to complement the existing system. In addition to this, the capability of point refunds will allow for better pooling of resources without fear of "wasting" points.
Ultimately no matter what we come up with won't satisfy and benefit everyone. But I do agree that more possibilities need to be made. |
Ok, that sounds good. I was just sad when I went to upload all of my scores and could only input a fraction of them. 
Also, I just realized that I hit freebird status, and I didn't even notice what my 2000th post was.
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Anexa
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 43
Location: Colmar, France/ San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Well I can understand that a site needs donations and stuf fbut boy was I disappointed to see that the only RBN tracking was for Rythym Authors material...
I mean I GUESS I understand.. but I honestly feel a little bit gypped (mind you I haven't paid for any service so my complaint carries little weight) but I thought it was about documenting scores.. like ALL scores.. not just what's owned by SH or deemed popular enough to deserve to be on the site... anyway I guess I was mislead when I saw RBN score tracking was live.. I assumed it meant the RBN not RA..
Apologies if I sound rude, it's not my intention, I'm already happy for SH in general but I'm just disappointed.
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