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RoXtar92
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 35
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 Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Deimos wrote: | You guys should really take the time to learn how the DMCA works in relation to this kind of stuff. It's not that complex. Here's a simplified version (yes, I'm leaving out some details):
1. Someone submits a copyright claim against your video (or the sound on your video). It is automatically taken down. YouTube is required to take everything with a claim down automatically, without investigation. If they do not do this, they open themselves up to legal action from the copyright holders.
2. You have the option to dispute the copyright claim. If you dispute it, it is automatically put back up. You're not "winning", it's just the way the process works. By disputing, no matter what you put in the form, you get your audio/video back. However, and this is the important part, by disputing, you consent to have YouTube release your information to the copyright holder so that they can take legal action against you, should they so desire.
3. Get sued, or don't. Depends how much they want to stop you. |
So this legal statement has no use or meaning at all?? |
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PhillyPride88
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 1339
Location: Cortland, New York
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| RoXtar92 wrote: | | Deimos wrote: | You guys should really take the time to learn how the DMCA works in relation to this kind of stuff. It's not that complex. Here's a simplified version (yes, I'm leaving out some details):
1. Someone submits a copyright claim against your video (or the sound on your video). It is automatically taken down. YouTube is required to take everything with a claim down automatically, without investigation. If they do not do this, they open themselves up to legal action from the copyright holders.
2. You have the option to dispute the copyright claim. If you dispute it, it is automatically put back up. You're not "winning", it's just the way the process works. By disputing, no matter what you put in the form, you get your audio/video back. However, and this is the important part, by disputing, you consent to have YouTube release your information to the copyright holder so that they can take legal action against you, should they so desire.
3. Get sued, or don't. Depends how much they want to stop you. |
So this legal statement has no use or meaning at all?? |
No it does...if you actually fall under fair use. You are protected if you fall under there. I don't know just how gray it is, but there you go...let someone with more legal background explain it better.
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Deimos 
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 1344
Location: Calgary, AB
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| RoXtar92 wrote: | | So this legal statement has no use or meaning at all?? |
I don't know exactly what you're asking. By disputing, you are making a legal statement that you believe you have the right to use this audio/video, under fair use, or that you are the copyright owner, or any other reason that gives you the right to use it. You are stating that you are certain of this fact, and that you are willing to be taken to court to fight it, if the copyright owner decides that they want to take you there.
If you're not actually certain of that, you probably shouldn't dispute the takedowns.
I'm just trying to make it clear that, like Manfredvonkarma said, it doesn't matter what you type in the box, you "win" automatically. The linked video didn't find some "magic words" that make you get your audio back, anything works. But you should be aware that there are potential consequences to disputing claims.
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RoXtar92
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Deimos wrote: | | RoXtar92 wrote: | | So this legal statement has no use or meaning at all?? |
I don't know exactly what you're asking. By disputing, you are making a legal statement that you believe you have the right to use this audio/video, under fair use, or that you are the copyright owner, or any other reason that gives you the right to use it. You are stating that you are certain of this fact, and that you are willing to be taken to court to fight it, if the copyright owner decides that they want to take you there.
If you're not actually certain of that, you probably shouldn't dispute the takedowns.
I'm just trying to make it clear that, like Manfredvonkarma said, it doesn't matter what you type in the box, you "win" automatically. The linked video didn't find some "magic words" that make you get your audio back, anything works. But you should be aware that there are potential consequences to disputing claims. |
Hmm, well thank you very much for bringing this to my attention, I had thought this was a "get out of jail free" card without knowing THAT much about it. I will make an edit to my main post with some of the information that you have given me so people do not go doing this willy nilly. However, I would like to ask whether you think it would come under this act if you stated it was purely for educational purposes eg. I have a FoF Custom channel which shows off charts, do you reckon that would come under the act or not? |
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Deimos
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 1344
Location: Calgary, AB
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| RoXtar92 wrote: | | Hmm, well thank you very much for bringing this to my attention, I had thought this was a "get out of jail free" card without knowing THAT much about it. I will make an edit to my main post with some of the information that you have given me so people do not go doing this willy nilly. However, I would like to ask whether you think it would come under this act if you stated it was purely for educational purposes eg. I have a FoF Custom channel which shows off charts, do you reckon that would come under the act or not? |
I'm not qualified to give legal advice like that. I don't want to say that it "should be fine", and then have people think that they're safe to dispute these claims because of something a random person on a forum said.
If you really want to know, set up a consultation to discuss the matter with a lawyer that specializes in copyright/IP law. This will probably cost you (at least) several hundred dollars. Afterwards though, you could certainly post the resulting information online for others to reference.
Note that this may not even result in any definitive information, because things like this often have to be decided in court to set a precedent. I haven't heard of any cases of someone posting GH/RB/FoF videos going to court, so I'm not sure that the legality of this is currently even solid one way or the other. Again, I'm not qualified to make these statements, I really have no idea whether the "right" side of this issue is known at the moment. As always, if you want legal advice, ask a lawyer, not the internet.
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RoXtar92
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| OK, well thanks for the information anyway and I will change the first post to make sure people don't just do this carelessly. |
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GesterX 
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 1242
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Deimos wrote: | | . I haven't heard of any cases of someone posting GH/RB/FoF videos going to court, so I'm not sure that the legality of this is currently even solid one way or the other. Again, I'm not qualified to make these statements, I really have no idea whether the "right" side of this issue is known at the moment. As always, if you want legal advice, ask a lawyer, not the internet. |
To be fair I could see them taking one person to court just to "make an example" of them by sueing them for lots of money. This is how they usually do it with illegal downloaders. No one ever really gets sued but when they do you hear about it because it's for $200,000. |
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Deimos
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 1344
Location: Calgary, AB
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| GesterX wrote: | | To be fair I could see them taking one person to court just to "make an example" of them by sueing them for lots of money. This is how they usually do it with illegal downloaders. No one ever really gets sued but when they do you hear about it because it's for $200,000. |
Yeah, and that's pretty much what I'm getting at. By disputing the takedowns on your videos, you are effectively saying "I'm willing to be the person you try to make an example of."
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Metallik
Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Milan, North Italy
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Deimos, without thinking to ourselves too much about whether it is legal or not to dispute a takedown...
what's your opinion on posting game footage? imho I think that i should have the right to post as much footage as I want on YT if i paid for my game. |
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GesterX
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 1242
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Metallik wrote: | Deimos, without thinking to ourselves too much about whether it is legal or not to dispute a takedown...
what's your opinion on posting game footage? imho I think that i should have the right to post as much footage as I want on YT if i paid for my game. |
But you are effectively sharing it with others and providing them a means to listen to the music illegally and without permission. Obviously that is not anyones intention but it is a side-effect of posting videos on thier.
Also google makes advertising revenue when people click the little pop up links (usually for iTunes) and I'm sure that is the main thing the record companies are pissed off about. |
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Deimos
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 1344
Location: Calgary, AB
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Metallik wrote: | | what's your opinion on posting game footage? imho I think that i should have the right to post as much footage as I want on YT if i paid for my game. |
In my 100% unqualified opinion, based on the impression I get from reading some of the relevant laws: It depends. I know that's not a good answer, but it's how things are.
Some of the relevant laws you should probably look over if you want to try and understand are, starting here: Exclusive rights in copyrighted works. Basically everything from that page onwards up to Section 119. Yes, that's a lot of reading. No, you probably still won't understand whether it's allowed or not. I still don't.
But what I meant earlier by "it depends", is related to what exactly you're doing with your gameplay footage. A site like GameTrailers posting game clips in their video reviews is certainly legally covered by the fair use clauses in section 107. Something like a 30 second long "AWESOME QUAKE ROCKET JUMP" video is also probably fine.
However, posting complete GH/RB song runs is very fuzzy, and it's my impression that this is not legal. The key clause that catches my eye is in section 117, number (3): "the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole". An entire GH/RB song video tends to contain a complete or nearly-complete copyrighted work (the song), perhaps short a few blips when the player misses. It's very hard to justify "watch me play a song" as educational or a review, especially when you're violating that clause.
In practice, the chance of anything coming of non-GH/RB gameplay videos seems to be extremely low, because watching a video of a game is a poor substitute for actually playing the game. Because of this, I don't think game companies worry much about it. Generally having cool videos of your games out there actually increases sales, when viewers see the types of things that are possible. People aren't going to just watch videos as a replacement for buying the game. Of course, there's always the chance that the videos will be used to show that your game is awful, and prevents people from buying it, but that's not much different than the reviews that will already be everywhere.
In regards to your comment about "because I bought it I should be allowed to do this", that's really not how it works. There is a very significant distinction here. When you buy a game, yes, you can basically do whatever you want with it. Make videos of yourself playing it, modify the game to change your character's appearance, whatever. However, the trouble comes in when you start distributing those things that you did to other people. You're allowed to do basically whatever you want for personal use, but you can't legally make it public unless it fits as one of the defined exceptions to copyright law. What I'm saying here is that sure, you can make as many videos as you want, but you could get in trouble if you ever show them to anyone else.
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sedron
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 715
Location: Somewhere between the North and South Poles
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| GesterX wrote: | | Metallik wrote: | Deimos, without thinking to ourselves too much about whether it is legal or not to dispute a takedown...
what's your opinion on posting game footage? imho I think that i should have the right to post as much footage as I want on YT if i paid for my game. |
But you are effectively sharing it with others and providing them a means to listen to the music illegally and without permission. Obviously that is not anyones intention but it is a side-effect of posting videos on thier.
Also google makes advertising revenue when people click the little pop up links (usually for iTunes) and I'm sure that is the main thing the record companies are pissed off about. |
It may not be not true to say that it's no one's intention. I'm sure someone could find use for a Youtube video and maybe get a file of the audio used for listening purposes. I'm sure this wouldn't usually be the case since the game sounds go over the videos (ie. misses, SP/OD activation, etc.) but maybe in the case of an FC or something the file would be desirable to listen to. Even without going to the length of getting an audio file out of a Youtube video, I've used Youtube to listen to songs before so I'm sure other people do the same from time to time. |
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xXryannn
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 576
Location: pittsburgh
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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So I disputed a copyright claim on my video for an expert FC of The Unforgiven.
Several weeks later, my dispute seems successful. By successful I mean I got past the initial automatic unblocking. I got this message.
| Youtube wrote: | | In response to your dispute, the claim on audio content that is owned or licensed by WMG was removed. |
If you want, I can try to figure out what I wrote and post it here. It was something along the lines of, "this song was licensed to neversoft for the use in the game guitar hero metallica, I am simply providing footage of the game itself."
I don't know if this means that the record company allowed it or Youtube allowed it. I guess we'll find out if I get a court notice in the mail, haha. |
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notBowen
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 275
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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I've done this, and all of the videos I've done this with say "Dispute submitted". These weren't RB/GH/Whatever videos, they were videos I'd edited with licensed music in the background. In any case, all I want to get at is that a while ago, I had disputed some of my other videos in a different way. Instead of this fair use Copypasta I simply wrote a small explanation basically stating I was making no money from this video and that I've gotten unsolicited messages from people telling me they bought the band's song/album because they heard it in my videos, and that I'm doing nothing but free promotion for their artist. Whether a human being actually saw that message or not, those videos are sitting as "Dispute Successful".
For reference, one of the "Successful" videos can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuhMP7aNn_o
Take from that what you will. |
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TheTrueSatanist
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 588
Location: Rochdale, Manchester, U.K.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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kind of a necro, but distorting audio or cutting sections out or messing with the copyrighted material can solve these problems or help to
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