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panteraddict
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 416
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 Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisVance wrote: | | Turbulence wrote: | | TheDLO wrote: | Out of sheer observation it appears that most of the Guitar Hero 3 complainers just find it overall too hard.
Okay, I have BOTH games, so my opinion is unbiased. I dolled out $170 and got it opening day just like all the other die hard fans, and I can honestly say that I like Guitar Hero 3 more. Mind you parts of Rock Band are fantastic (specifically the drum part), but the other parts are unimpressive.
The average Expert Bass chart in Rock Band is comparable to a medium Guitar song in Guitar Hero. It's just too easy. It shouldn't even count as it's own instrument. Now the drums are fine. I have no complaints with it. It's fun and has great charts, because frankly, it's pretty hard to mess up a drum chart.
Onto the guitar. I find it overall extremely unimpressive. I'm a top knotch Guitar Hero player, and I just find the Rock Band Guitar to be simple, and very innacurate. Yes, people always say the same thing about guitar hero.
"The blend the parts together."
"There's too many 3 chords."
"They add notes where they shouldn't have!"
Now for the first point, they did that in the first game, and the second, and in Rock the 80s. Rock Band doesn't do that, and while it's more accurate to the actual "Lead Guitar" part, it also often leaves gaps of sitting still in single player mode. What would you rather have? A 2 minute song with a minute and 50 seconds of playing? Or a 2 minute song with a minute and TWENTY seconds of playing?
It can be agreed that the intention in playing a song is to play the guitar. So what's so bad about them giving you the path with the optimal amount of playing.
Now the second ranted about feature is the over-abundance of 3-chords in Guitar Hero 3. Everyone complains that there's just too many, HOWEVER the chords ARE ACCURATE! The 3 chords in Guitar Hero are chords on the real guitar that use MORE THAN TWO STRINGS. In Rock Band there are so many chords that are either two chords when they should be 3, or are just flatout single notes. How is THAT more accurate? |
The number of buttons should correspond to the number of fingers you would use for the chord, not how many are held down. Your typical Root-Fifth-Octave power chord uses two fingers - one for the root, one barred off across the the fifth and the octave (unless it's at the open position, then it's just one finger). Why should I be forced to use three fingers to play a chord that takes two fingers on the real guitar? GH3 even goes further along these lines - many of the songs are in a drop-D tuning, which means you can play a fifth chord with just one finger barred across the top three strings. In GH2 some of these chords required two fingers, which is inaccurate, but not as bad as GH3 which requires you to use three frets to finger a chord that only uses one finger on the guitar.
This didn't start on GH3, though. GH2 has LOTS of fingerings that are more complicated than on the real guitar. It has two finger chords for one finger drop-D power chords (in "Them Bones" and "Beast and the Harlot"). It has two finger chords for single string notes (the main riff of "Six" has about 7 extra notes in only two bars). One could argue that this is necessary for difficulty, but in my opinion GH2 takes this trend just about as far as you can justify it, and GH3 takes it way too far.
Rock Band isn't immune to this, of course. The clean guitar opening of Enter Sandman uses only uses three frets across three strings. It uses all five buttons in Rock Band on Expert. Likewise, the F#-E-F#-E-F#-G-F#-E chord section is a lot more complicated on Rock Band than on real guitar. It SHOULD be    |
<img src="http://www.guitarnoise.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?w=&h=&cache=cache&media=barrre.jpg |
The chords have to be done case to case. That slipknot song is just barred notes with a tuned down guitar. Those only take 1 finger... they could have used double notes for the chorus and single notes for the riff. BUT that doesn't give it that heavy feeling when you play it.
Now in theory... songs like the seeker should be all trichords, 4 chords, 5 chords... and we'd need a new button for a 6-chord. There are no power chords in the seeker, and its a much harder song in real life than raining blood is. They should have all akward trichord changes in THAT song instead of the standard chords.
Not that I care because all of ttfaf's tri chords are long holds... but there should not be a single tri-chord in that. They're power chords. Even though some power chords use 3 fingers or 3 strings (depending on preference), the game should not have copied that because it leaves nothing more difficult for the REAL chords.
Uh... sloppy post, sorry. Going out now 
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2n2
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Jumping in late here, but puppetmaster's super-long post is EACTLY my situation too. I want to love the game, but it just isn't that FUN to me as I was expecting. |
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panteraddict
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 416
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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one last thing... cliffs of dover note chart should be harder. (talking about solos)
In real life, that song has some of the most akward fretting patterns and it definitley does not flow like it does in gh3. Not to mention eric johnson is an amazing guitarist, I don't see why they'd hold back on this song.
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xeroxgp 
Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 1682
Location: Fargo, ND
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TheDarkSawblade
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 774
Location: I have no clue
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Now how can GH3 be easy? I do hard and I can't EVEN get through KoC or TtFaF.
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Jet Set Radio Future FTW!
Goals:
5-star the main set list on GH2 for 360 []
Beat Battery on RB2 [] |
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Deschain
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 2137
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| rabies wrote: |
I think GH3 expert is harder to pass than GH2 expert
I think GH2 expert is harder to 5 star (all songs) than GH3 expert.
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It's like the FC difficulty lists-if you really wanted to say which game was more difficult, it's all about varying shades of gray, and the games go back-and-forth as the difficulty rises.
I 5* every song in GH3 on sightread (including One/Raining Blood) except for TTFAF (the only song I've failed) and TWIE. Hard to compare skill levels at different points in life, but around the end of my GH2 career was when I 5* Six, the last one. It took forever (you wanna talk tears, wulfe?). But I see a number of harder songs chord-wise in GH3. Simply enough, the engines are different, which makes it even harder to compare. I remember getting my hands on a carbon-copy TTFAF GH3 chart and importing it into a custom GH2 disc, to see how it would play. It's absolutely fucking impossible. Passed 1st try, but multiple tries never yielded above 230k. As reference, I can now get 520K+ on TTFAF consistently.
To me, this gives good perspective on what is fun for RB and what is fun for GH3. Yeah, GH3 throws way crazier stuff your way (though for me, that doesn't happen until tier 7), but the engine equips you to handle it with less frustration than the RB engine undoubtedly would.
In short, that's my answer to people who say GH3 is too hard: Be glad Harmonix didn't put that chart in their engine. Rock Band isn't about just the guitarist, so the songs reflect that. What's going to keep a person playing Guitar Hero by themself? Ramping up difficulty, because there are no other instruments to break in and learn a la Rock Band.
The games are not made by the same company, so the chart creators not only have different goals with the charts, they've probably got different ideas about how to achieve the same goals. Personal "preferences" of the average player color the issue more. Guitar Hero is not a simulation, it's an impersonation. Thus, liberties can be taken instantly by the fact that the game is not recreating playing a guitar exactly. If creating a chart were an exact science, someone would have generated a program and the Custom Requests thread would have more traffic than the rest of SH.
Both games improved in some areas, like Lag Calibration, and bungled some others, like lack of an Online Band World Tour, a clunky sign-in process, my drum sets NEVER REGISTERING A DRUM ROLL, and Battle Mode. Battle Mode is interesting, but to base the winner on a luck-of-the-draw powerup sucks. If they gave the players more control over the powerups Smash Bros. style, aka pick which power-ups appear at all (Lefty Flip would be banned from my household), and how often, it would have potential.
To be honest, I think the GH3 hate is resultant of people becoming familiar with how the game works over a few releases, and are developing their own ideas of how the future should go based on past experience. I'm sure some of those are OK, but most are better off holding their tongue. Remember how different GH1 was from 2? HO/POs, encores...that was from the same developer. How similar a result did you think was going to go down from a new one? GH3 is not the fried gold GH2 was, I can pretty much agree. But this is Neversoft's first one out of the gate, and they got a lot of things right. I expect GH4 to be vastly improved.
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Fraggle Rock
| Lars Ulrich said, not wrote: | | It's only 7 1/2 minutes! F***, we gotta put some more riffs in there. |
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GDR
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 100
Location: The Ville
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Fedora wrote: |
Yeah, I used to play DDR quite a bit too (I ended up capping out at about Max 300, could never get the other Maxxes/PSMO nonsense but then I also don't use the bar, so that's probably part of it.)
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That might be, but I used the bar and could still never get the stamina, let alone the ABSOLUTELY PRECISE timing it took to really shine at DDR. I did however start to get decent at Stepmania, but deleted all 8 gigs or something of songs I had this Fall because I didn't play at all anymore.
*EDIT* I totally agree with Deschain. Lefty Flip needs to die a horrible slow death.
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Twang
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 2848
Location: The Frost Giant's Cavern
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "The blend the parts together." |
I think people who think blending the rhythm and lead parts together is "un-fun" have obviously never played Strutter on co-op.
Just saying. |
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Vuljatar
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 238
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Many of the problems I have with GH3 are exclusive to the PS2 version:
Awful, awful graphics.
Incredibly long save times.
Occasional skipping.
No Bret Michaels.
No Grim Ripper.
Practice mode randomly starts you somewhere within 10 seconds of the section you chose to practice.
No way to play the boss battles as normal songs/multiplayer. (This is the biggest one. They need to fix this, make a new version and offer free exchanges. This is huge.)
But some are the same across all versions:
Unreliable new controllers.
Retartedly overcharted chords in some songs.
NO CLIVE FUCKING WINSTON?!
Too large note timing window.
Ineffective Star Power.
Raining Blood's Mosh 1 chart.
Multiplayer battles greatly favoring the lower difficulty player.
Censorship. I can understand some of it, but why would you censor the word "Bitch"? The game is rated T for Teen!
But regardless of all these shortcomings, I still enjoy GH3 and I still believe it was worth the money I spent on it. Though I feel somewhat screwed over by the lack of non-battle DWDTG on the PS2. |
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FaithNoMore
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 443
Location: Queens, NY
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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i just found many of the note charts just not fun to play. none of the songs in like the first 5 tiers are worth playing......
and im not saying cause im great at the game, im not.......just those charts are bland and boring. whenever i put gh3 in, i run right to ttfaf, devil went down to georgia, impulse, the songs in the final tier and maybe another song or two in the main setlist.....
but i still play a ton of songs from gh2 despite it being much older now. it should be played out and boring, but instead, gh3 is. the easier songs in gh2 are more fun to play in general, even songs i dont really like. gh3 didnt really accomplish that.
and also, random strums in solos fucking suck. seriously. on some songs they make sense, but on others its just stupid.
i do agree though that rock bands charts dont really make you want to play them solo......i wish harmonix would make another standalone guitar game........but its not gonna happen now |
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evanft
Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 769
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Deschain wrote: | | rabies wrote: |
I think GH3 expert is harder to pass than GH2 expert
I think GH2 expert is harder to 5 star (all songs) than GH3 expert.
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*huge post* |
This post was full of more win than this entire thread combined.
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Metal.
[quote:9821fddf0f="fuzzy510"][quote:9821fddf0f="i-am-the-gh"]how do u beat one on hard? i kno its not bout money but.. |
When the notes come by, play them on the guitar. Don''t fail by the end of the song. | |
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