The LETS figure out the Multipliers topic!

**blob** · Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 2177 Location: Dallas, TX

Ok, I've been working on a few songs, and thanks to the videos sully has, I am able to test it a little. But here is what I've come up with

**NumberCruncher** · Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 93

I just posted some results from my data here.

I'm not sure exactly how this correlates to base scores, but my best estimate so far (which is actually disproven in a few cases, especially on vocals) is that 1 star is 0.2∙base, 2 stars are 0.45∙base, 3 stars are 0.75∙base, 4 stars are 1.8∙base, 5 stars are 3.0∙base, and gold stars are 4.5∙base. This isn't quite prefect, though, and big rock endings much things up even further.

**blob** · Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 2177 Location: Dallas, TX

Well the two songs that I did have BRE's so perhaps the multipliers are increased due to them. Since my values seem a tad higher. A song without holds may be able to determine exactly since the base score will always be a multiple of 25, and the score will end in 25 as well, w/o BRE.

I'll probably do some more work tonight on it.
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**NumberCruncher** · Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 93

Yeah, I did some testing with Blitzkrieg Bop on easy (no holds), and it seemed to align with the numbers I gave. Songs on vocals seems to be less consistent, in that 3 stars was less than .75 the base score on at least one song (5 was less than 3 time base, et cetera). It's possible I just miscounted the number of phrases, and I don't recall which song it was on.

I should also get around to doing a song on drums and bass on easy so I can get exact base scores there and see how things compare. Then maybe if I can rope a friend into experimenting, I'll do some band tests.

I know star-cutoffs in terms of other star-cutoffs table is pretty accurate and applies to all instruments and to bands, but we need to figure out how star-cutoffs relate to base score for each instrument and bands, and also how big rock endings figure it. In doing so, it would also be nice to figure out the max score for each instrument on big rock endings as a function of time, beats, or measures (whichever turns out to be most applicable).

**blob** · Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 2177 Location: Dallas, TX

Also for a good expert representation of bass, Reptilia is perfect. No holds.

I'll try it tonight, song 30 of 58 of endless setlist =/
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**blob** · Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 2177 Location: Dallas, TX

The bass multipliers w/o BRE were figured out. For some reason now HMX hates even numbers?

**NumberCruncher** · Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 93

Alright, so that's a pretty good indication that the relation between star cutoff and base score is instrument dependent. I'll look at some vocal videos again to see if I can get a good idea of what they are for vocals. Then maybe later I'll do some testing on drums.

Also, any chance your 1 star number for Reptilia is a bit high (maybe had star power active when you got it, or read the number late)? If it is, the breakdown could be something like 0.31818, 0.7, 1.1667, 2.8, 4.6667, 7. A little more confirmation for this would be nice, but these are a little bit above 1.5 times the numbers we have for guitar, which makes sense.

**blob** · Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 2177 Location: Dallas, TX

Your right, I counted wrong in reptilia, the base score was 24,075

1* = .3208722741
2* = .6905503634
3* = 1.150571132
4* = 2.770508827
5* = 4.622014538

These look closer to what you had in mind. Your numbers seem about right, since Reptilia is holdless, its impossible to test those numbers against it, since the score will always end in 25,50,75,00.

But this looks better.
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**NumberCruncher** · Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 93

Hmm, with these numbers in mind, it looks a lot more likely that bass could just be 1.5x guitar (so 0.3, 0.675, 1.125, 2.7, 4.5, 6.75). That conforms pretty nicely to your numbers, doesn't give crazy repeated decimals, and jives well with bass having 1.5x guitar's multiplier when maxed.

Made some progress on vocals. It seems to use the same numbers as guitar, but the phrase counts are strange. Big Rock Endings add a certain number of phrases (preliminary guess is the number of measures in the ending) to the base score. However, some songs without big rock endings seem to get phrases added, too. Even more bizarrely, they seem to get counted in your streak counter at the end if you 100% the song.

I would guess drums use the same cutoff multipliers as vocals and guitar, but I'll try to verify that and then figure out how it all comes together for bands. Then just a bit more work on big rock endings, and we'll have a darn good outline of how scoring works in this game.

**blob** · Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 2177 Location: Dallas, TX

Well I know that for a full band, G* a song is much easier, I could get 97% percent on say Welcome Home, with everyone in my band doing likewise, and we'd get a G*. 97% on solo, probably wont cut it.

Probably for the fact that your multipliers are carried to the band, instead of yourself.
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**NumberCruncher** · Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 93

Just watched some guitar + drums videos and found some interesting things. For the most part the cutoffs are equal to adding the cutoffs together and multiplying by 1.2 (so in terms of combined base score, it goes 0.24, 0.54, 0.9, 2.16, 3.6).

Gold stars, however, seem to break the pattern that everything else has followed so far in terms of relation to other cutoffs. Gold stars seem to be 1.25 or 1.26 times the combined cutoffs of the two instruments, so they are 5.67 times the combined base, as opposed to the expected 5.4. That means gold stars are 23.625 times 1 star, 10.5 times 2 stars, 6.3 times 3 stars, 2.625 times 4 stars, and 1.575 times 5 stars.

I've only checked on two songs so far, but this seems to hold up. I'd really like to be able to chalk this up to acceptable error and force it into the single instrument paradigm, but the margin is just too big for me to feel comfortable doing that without better data.

Guess I'll check three instrument groups to see if a trend forms.

**NumberCruncher** · Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 93

Alright, looked at a three player band video (guitar, drums, bass) and got a good idea of what's probably going on there. This time we add the cutoffs together and multiple by 1.5, except for, again, the gold star cutoff.

So, if we add up the three base scores (multiplying the bass base score by 1.5 to adjust for its inflated cutoffs) to get our combined base score, the band cutoffs will be 0.3, 0.675, 1.125, 2.7, and 4.5 times it.

The gold star cutoff increased yet again, and is 1.67 times the combined gold cutoff (and thus 7.5 times the combined base score and 25, 11.11, 6.67, 2.78, and 1.67 times the other cutoffs).

Based on this, I'm going to go ahead and guess that for a full band, 1-5 stars will by twice the combined cutoffs, and gold stars will be 2.3 or 2.4 times the combined gold cutoffs. I'll try to confirm this tomorrow, then maybe check out another three person band to make sure it's the same.

**Azuarc** · Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 1389 Location: Philadelphia

I'm going to take a stab and say that your belief in what the base score is is wrong. Consider:

**Azuarc** · Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 1389 Location: Philadelphia

OK, watched Sully's video of Black Hole Sun. As near as I can tell, the range on the cut-offs based on just this video are:

1* = ~4940
2* = 10780 - 10880
3* = 18038 - 18238
4* = 43466 - 43566
5* = 72322 - 72522
G* = 110180 - 110280

I welcome someone to check my counting, since I tend to fail at adding 1 to numbers bigger than 10, but my note count on each row of the chart was 43, 52, 53, 42, 54, 55, 58, 42, 42, 59, 39, 57, 38, 58, 51, 69, 27, 36, 2...which gives us a grand total of 877 notes. By my previous post, if 877 is the correct number, the cutoff values should be:

1* = 4823 (2.3% error)
2* = 10524 (2.4% error)
3* = 17540 (2.8% error)
4* = 42096 (3.1% error)
5* = 70160 (3.0% error)
G* = 105240 (4.4% error)

Which isn't TOO bad, but the fact that the error margin changes is disconcerting. It should be a constant if I simply miscounted. However, if I use a value of 905 notes, I get:

1* = 4978 (0.7% error)
2* = 10860 (in range)
3* = 18100 (in range)
4* = 43440 (in range)
5* = 72400 (in range)
G* = 108600 (1.4% error)

With the exception of the gold star, that looks pretty darn accurate. Curiously, if I use the 122x that I found up above rather than 120x, I get 110410, which is damn close. So now I just need to figure out how to fudge Black Hole Sun to having "905 notes" rather than the 877 I counted. That's a difference of 28. I'd make some conjecture about hold ticks, and say there are about 112 beats worth of hold (4 times that mysterious missing 28,) but the original figures were found without hold ticks counted, so hell if I know.

Anyway, maybe this will give someone a new direction to be thinking in.